1.29 cra. Cra isn't already a strong, late-game character. What you want to do will really make it useless. Strength cras were really kinda different and that was good, all this randomness that people agreed for while making their cras. Punitive arrow now is like destructive before, only it has 3 turns of cooldown (even much worse because of the range). If it stays the same as it is now you can delete the spell, it's gonna be far too useless. Changing destructive the way you want is also not a good idea... It once again rapes str cras out of the thing that makes them amazing - randomness. Also, with all the funny cooldowns on 3/4 of the spells, we'll be forced to use one or two now. Remember that as str cra, we have no AoE damage spells, so destroying the damage potential will just destroy the idea of making or playing str cra and, as far as I can see, the only reasonable build for cra will be int (although explosive's gonna be worse too).
I really hope you don't want to force lots of cras to quit/change their characters and you will think of the changes you want to make at least once more.

I am far past being overpowered at a low level. I have never seen a high level agility xelor that is OP, they get "nerfed" by leveling. I don't see how anyone can say intel iops are OP either, at low level yes, but who cares? I don't want a class to get to lv 60 and know that's it. High level int iops are not so great.

I think intel cras will be very happy with this so called "buff". And for some odd reason if you're a chance cra you will be very happy too.

On the other hand this isn't much of a buff for agil/str cras, it's more of nerf and a slap in the face for already being the most worthless PvP class around. I seriously hope they re think this update and fix it with the next...

This post has been edited by puntang: 16 Sep 2009, 13:58

this game is turning pvp. get used to it. been happening since 1.27. which is exactly why i quit this game months ago. i was a wis xelor. they destroyed my build. i had to change everything. stat reset to hybrid agi. had to change every single piece of equipment. by the time i did it all they nerfed xelors even more with the pathetic 3 range thing. at which point id had enough and quit. shame really. this was once a great game back in beta and the first year

Well how about intel ecas? They certainly are not weak at higher levels, and they have the same cap. Intel and agi iops? Arguably not as strong as str, but far from being weak. Chance and agi xelors often go hybrid at later levels, but they are not weak. Just because the soft caps are horrible, does not mean the build shouldnt get a buff.

This post has been edited by SilentRevenge: 16 Sep 2009, 14:39

ok whatever, bad softcaps are good.

The damage range on Explo needs to go a bit higher yet. The proposed changes have it a little less than Playful Claw. 2 problems here .... Ecas have better caps so improved damage and it's a level 70 spell versus a level 90. Yes, Playful is linear but it's received 20 levels earlier. Explo needs better damage potential. I would expect that an INT Cra should be able to match a STR Eca's Playful or a STR Iop's SoI and, when you consider the stat caps, the current proposed changes won't accomplish that.

The STR Cra build is a build without a 80, 90 or level 100 damage spell which means it should pale, damage-wise, in comparison to other builds. Punitive has been overpowered for its level for a long time. Yes, that statement will piss off some people but it's the truth. Destructive should be the spell you rely the most on and it's a decent spell. The STR build now has:
1. The low-level, 4 AP spell - Homing(Poison)
2. The useful, support 3 AP spell - Lashing
3. The dual-purpose spell - Punitive (damage + buff)
4. The primary damage spell - Destructive

The build has changed tons from being a one-hit, KO build to being an all-around, balanced build but I know that most STR builds don't care about that .... they want their old Puni back.

They should put Absorptive's CH back to where it was. A pure AGI Cra already has terrible caps to fight against. The 4 AP change is nice but the more I think about it, the more I think this build does not need a nerf in any respect.

I love the Paralyzing, Bat's Eye, Eagle Eye, Powerful Shooting, Magic Arrow, Frozen Arrow, Retreat, Homing and Atonement changes. Make the class much stronger, overall. Unless I read the update, Bow Skill still needs to be improved upon. It's our level 100 spell and it's still just a level 2X-3X style buff.

Increase damage potential of Explo, return Absorptive's original CH rate and I think the update will be a success ..... even if it makes half the current STR Cras quit or change builds. New STR Cras will be a strong, balanced build and that is probably what matters most.

I'm a 193 int Cra and I just played on the test server, I must say, some spells are very useful but our main spell died Explosive arrow hits even less then magic arrow (I have 1/2 magic arrow).. "INT CRA'S STRONGER IN PVP" what do you mean rofl, I got pwned by a 137 int sac..

What about the buffs.. I hate it O.o Bow Skill was my favourite spell, now it only lasts 2 turns

Bats Eye is just lovely in PVP, so is Paralyzing arrow and Retreat arrow now.

- Scan

Yet many of the 150-200 xelors I know are not affraid to run around with their wings up even if they are not PvP machines themselves. Something like that may be hardly said about many other classes.

As to cras:

STR - not getting f...d, but changed a lot
INT - euhm, pure int may not work anymore, not that it did in PvP before, and even now eng game very few cras stay pure int. Often due to equipment choices.
INT/CHA - tweak here tweak there, I will have to rethink spells, but equipment stays more or less.
AGI - never had AGI cra, I heard pros and cons of changes, more cons, everyone seems to be pissed at 1/50 absorbing arrow
INT/AGI - hmm, gonna wait for Nikto
CHA, or WIS/CHA - looks like a build to try out now for PvP, I am curious to see CHA cras now

Overall feeling:

Chance looks appealing now, tho hindered by soft caps. As I am more concerned for PvM, explo will still be better than slow down, atonement arrow looks like fun. Lashing arrow is a good trade for non crit cras. The way critical shooting works on test, many cras will not rely on crits that much.

I am eager to see how this works out in the end. I expect some changes to come anyway.

This post has been edited by meatraw: 16 Sep 2009, 15:21

*sighs* im not saying they are a good thing, im saying bad softcaps are not the end of a build

I know, I just don't feel like arguing right now.

AGREED!

Agree with this statement, I do.

Seriously? Why the hell couldn't they just buff the existing class, instead of scrapping it and making a new one based around Cha spells?! All they needed was some tweaking, and some slight buffs here and there.

They increased damage on most spells, that was good... pretty much every spell will be useful now. But the spells that were good before were either nerfed to oblivion, or nerfed a small amount. They went WAY overboard on making spells' damage dependable... we went from being the most random dealing class in the game to by far the most dependable. Seriously... NO ONE has damage spells that are THAT reliable. Not that I'm complaining about this... but it really just seems like Ankama is being an ass about these cra "buffs".

To the people talking about the Crit spell... it might be nice, but you're forgetting that almost every cra spell has a LOWER crit rate now, and that the crit effects are pretty much no better than the normal hits... so it will be completely pointless to EVER get 1/2 on ANYthing now, unless they make some big changes...

Chance cra, you say? Let's see...
I found 4 spells with chance damage.
1) Atonement:
At lvl 5, 21-23 damage. Gravity state doesn't really matter because u can get those with every build. So you get some damage every 5 turns, at maximum of 5 range (it's not adjustable). Cool.
2) Bat's eye:
At lvl 5, 12-14 damage. Rapes some range, but for 2 turns so who cares. You get 12-14 damage every 5 turns.
3) Paralyzying arrow:
Now that's weird. A spell with lower damage on crit than normally. So, at lvl 5 it's 9-10 damage for 2 ap, but can be cast only twice at the same enemy in one turn. Can steal mp so it's not so bad, but still it's not high damage.
4) Slow down arrow:
At lvl 5, 21-23 damage and steals 2 ap in AoE. It's for 5 ap till level 180, so let's count it as that so far. It's linear, so pretty pain in the ass to use.

Assuming. You have 2 spells that you can use every turn and 2 that you can use every 5 turns. The damage output is pretty poor imo. and the ap raping/mp stealing isn't that good. (why would cra need so many mp?). And why the heck would an archer rely on pure luck? Get some skill, god dam' it :<

yeah, lets compare the shitty chance cra of 1.29 to the chance cra of 1.28 (which is a perfectly viable build)

Slow down arrow

level 5 15 - 21 (less), steals 2 in aoe, 5ap till level 80, still linear

and

oh wait, thats it isnt it

they got buffed

most of them are not wis builds though. certainly not the lvl 200's. of course im sure their are a few out their who still pvp. they prob just aggro cras though as anyone can beat them

Yeah. I so agree. Iops should be made only for str, fecas for int, srams for agi, xelors for wis, sadidas for str, cras for chance. Hooray! Let's screw all other build, leave one hardly playable. God, that's a great idea.

Fixed a few things.

Also... tell me how Int Cras got buffed? Sure, all our damage spells are about equal in power now, with varying effects, but all our buffs were nerfed, and the ability to get high damage crits is taken away, meaning our overall power is lessened by a huge amount. So now we're basically just a bland toolbox that can do various almost-useful things, while doing shitty damage from a range, and requiring lots of Diamonds to do so. Int Cras are undoubtedly NERFED... not buffed...

The only cra build that wasn't nerfed by these changes was of course Chance Cra, which nobody cared about in the first place. And not only were they buffed... they were BUFFED HUGELY. What once was the red-headed-stepchild build will very soon become the predominant Cra build. How does this possibly make a bit of sense? And they have the worst soft caps to boot...

Thank you for the meaningful replies. I have to agree with Killerfurby - in PvP most Cra's just plain suck, the main reason why I don't care for this aspect of the game as I enjoy playing my character for the PvM where things go a little better against opponents I can choose to fight. I also agree that punitive is a very powerful spell but with the randomness aspect it is not overpowered. Ask any Cra who uses punitive and they will tell you that more often than not you are called a noob and your damage sucks! On the odd occassion you strike lucky and roll some heavy damage and for this reason a Str Cra really needs the class boots - to get 2 chances in the round to strike some luck.

Since going over the proposed updates I have to again agree with Kilelrfurby - maybe the time has now come to hang up the gloves and bid farewll to the community. After reaching lvl 197 and seeing your character be degraded in the name of PvP really hurts. Sure I can start again but damn.... what a grind! Just dont feel up to killing blops and kanis again. I could leech, sure, but how long till the new character is nerfed aswell? I already have a lvl 189 Sacrier - nerfed beyond repair in my opinion. I have a lvl 180 Iop - Str one nerfed to the point of sadness and the Int one will follow suit if all the cries for nerf are heeded. I have a lvl 106 enu but cant rely on him as my main for good damages and pulling us through.

I guess when the update comes I just need to log in, check it out and do some XP runs. Soon I will be able to tell if this game is worth keeping or whether I need to move on somewhere else... I hope it will still be fun.

Most all Xelors these days ARE Wis builds. They OWN in PvP. They are RIDICULOUS at raping AP, STILL.

I know you may be pissed about your nerf back in the day... but Xelors are still a ridiculously strong class. Try coping with the changes, and learn to freaking play.

This is not in any way related to these Cra changes. Cras sucked. They always have. There's no disputing that. Ankama finally promises us a BUFF, and we get NERFED hardcore. THIS is a lack of justice... NOT what was done to Xelors.

It's not all bad but it does make me a little worried considering pandas are gonna be next.