Our Game Economy and Our Kamas... What can we do? Hey everybody!

Kama is the currency of Ankama. They are earned by defeating monsters, selling items and completing certain quests...


Very little of us are wealthy and have alot of spare kamas. Actually for most of us it is something that really never rises, unless you decide to sell something that you already have... which in many cases can be time wasting and very hard to do, not to mention the countless posts on the Trading Ch... And you guessed it the reason why things never sell is because just like you no one else seems to have enough kamas lieing around to buy your items. So why is this and how do we fix it.

Ok! So in the real world this is how it works... We get a job and we work all week, and then we get payed.... Lets say we get 800p.w just as an example. Then we buy our food, we pay our bills, we pay for new clothes and things we need and we pay for luxury items... And of cause many other things in between.... But you see in the real world we work and we work and we work until one day we get a promotion! Now lets just say we are earning 900p.w but we are still paying for the same things just because we got a promotion suddenly means our bills rise and retail shops start rising prices, no thats not what happens it just means we have 100.p.w extra in our pockets.

But! This is how it works in Dofus. We start off at 1 and lvl up!! Most of our starting gear e.g (piwi gear) can be obtained simply through drops, we make our kamas and really we dont have to pay for much at all. But as the game progresses drops and kams become less and we find our selfs searching for something to sell in order to gain something we actually need in order to progress ourselves. So in reality it the opposite to the real world... The harder the game gets and the more we progress the longer and more stressfull it is to obtain enough kamas to get te things we need.

Dofus at the moment is running a very strict economy. Bassically the only real money to be made is through selling gear, but like I mentioned earlier there is no one with kamas to buy this gear.... So what ends up happening is that everyone that has high lvl Professions and Specializations make the gear for them selves, which means they are not spending nor receiving kamas.... which means another person is forced to do the same thing or go without and spend hours upon hours, days upon days, trying to merely lvl up once because she/he cant get the gear she needs in order to even out the lvl - Xp ratio.


I actually truely believe that the only reason that the dofus economy still exists is because of BOTS. Bots run around atomatically fighting monsters in groups of 8. Which means they get higher drops and more kamas. After the hundrends of BOTS finish their rounds they collect everything into a main acc. which they then sell to the public for real money. Which is that fastest and easiest way of putting money back into the economy. But means you end up spending real money, and according to dofus is forbidden. But how else do you excpect us to make our money then Dofus Team?? Unless we all go out and start fighting monster after monster after monmster and get maybe 1000- 6000 kamas for every 2 hours work then there is no point. And even still we would need 100 000 dofus players on one server alone to be constantly doing this to even get the economy on track.

Why don't you look at making the game more proportioned?? Why is it that the more we lvl the harder it is to make a living so to speak??? The only way we can fix this problem is if one: 100 000 + people go out and constantly fight monsters,

2: If the Dofus Team increases drop rates and kama drops, and proportions this closer as we lvl or,

3: If the Dofus Team starts handing out Rewards and Stimulus Packages to get more money back into the server?? Where is our kamas DOFUS???

Feedback is always welcome

Thanks

This post has been edited by xFrozenxWondersx: 29 Oct 2009, 05:37

at lv 171 its easier for me to make a living. I sell MATS for the gear...I BUY mats for the gear...economy is pretty stable.

Edit; Economy is not /stable/ but does not need to make things easier as we level...(lots of discussion about headhunter quest ruining economy, will let the economy experts take that)

This post has been edited by Buggabug: 28 Oct 2009, 15:16

I would think the supply of kamas is far less of a problem on a "seasoned" server like Rushu than on a newer one like Solar.

But then, kamas DO leave the Dofus economy, by sellroom/bank fees, costs of NPC mats, and by far the biggest reason, players quiting the game and taking their mats, equips, and kamas with them.

In theory, a given server will eventually reach a balanced situation where gains from newer players accumulating kama will offset the losses from the above mentioned leakages. This balance can be disturbed by influences both in game and in the real world, but its mostly a temporary thing.

If a given server leaks players for too long, of course, Ankama has an interest in repopulating the server by recommending it for new players or even closing off access to other servers.

I do agree with the OP that bots are a major factor in Dofus' economics, indeed to the point that I don't dislike them as much as I once did. Without the constant supply of cheap low level mats the bots supply, levelling profs would take MUCH longer and scrolling would be MUCH more expensive.

The ability to survive in the Dofus economy rests on your ability to creatively exploit the economy. Don't fight it, learn to love it. With 25mk in the bank, I DO LOVE IT.

I think the main problem here is that the OP is of low level and hasnt figured out yet how to make kamas.

Besides the higher level you get to, the "harder" bosses you can fight and they yield more expensive drops. Plus there is always professions.

This post has been edited by eotkodekff: 28 Oct 2009, 16:11

Yes but even still just to get these monsters we are spending sometimes more then 1kk on ZAPPS and Prisms, Etc.... Plus not to mention Bread and so forth.
The problem isn't so much about how much kamas monsters give, its about how much they dont. If that make's sense...

What I mean is that all these factors play a big roll in the game and that to cover costs and time for such things you would think you would receive greater benifets?

E.g

Lets say a lvl 55 was fighting in Crakler Mountain. To get to that Zaap it is around 200k (from Astrub), maybe 600-1000k (from Bonta) or 5-10min to walk (from Astrub) or 30 min to walk (from Bonta). Then you get there, you may vs an average lvl of around 90 for each fight. Each fight will take around 5-15min depding on class, abilities, gear etc. So in theory averagely you'll probably fight 4-8 times in that hour (healing with bread), gaining you anywhere between, 400 - 1600 kamas.

But then you take away the cost of getting there, bread, etc you might be lucky to gain 600k. And then a lvl 60 comes along and agress you, you die and then you either sit down for another 15 mins or heal with bread.... Loosing even more time and money.

So for an hour and a halfs work and to gain only a mere 600k is to me just a waste?
Considering the costs of gear etc.

I could go out and actually work, get $20 and buy 3mil from online? Which is one besides the rules and 2 supporting some randoms I dont even know...

Grenerally pvm will not make you rich, jour job will.

lol, bad idea, first cuz you will most probably get scammed, second, even if not scammed you will support some (chinese) underpayed childern's labour, and third by doing so you are ruining the economy and the game. And its against the rules...

Farming almost anything will make you kamas if you farm it enough, from your example you forgot the possible drops you may get, e.g. diamond stones and other precious stones which will make you a lot more kamas than the ones dropped by monsters. Once you can start doing better dungeons these may yield drops worth of many mk. Professions are also a very good source of income especially to low levels, farmer and baker is an excellent combo to begin with. It wont require any initial investments.

This post has been edited by eotkodekff: 28 Oct 2009, 18:22

It seems that the OP just isn't into working for it. Sorry, but in Dofus you'll face trials just like in the real world.

There IS a way, in fact many ways, to afford equipment and such. Maybe the simplest thing for your level is to fight boars in Astrub forest and sell dropped mats in Astrub and Bonta. This is a paying gig with very little effort, even if you zaap to Bonta and back.

As to Crackler Mountain, get a group together and drop kwak feathers, claws from bwaks, and Diamond stones from cracklers. I'd imagine that even on Rushu, this pays well.

5-10 minutes to walk from Astrub to Crackler Mountain? Nah less than a minute tops. Look south of the Cemetery of Heroes and you'll find a quicker way. 30 minutes from Bonta? As the old hillbilly might say, "Ya can't get thar from here". Seriously, zaap or recall to Astrub and go from there. You gotta learn to travel easy. Recalls and Bonta potions are essential tools.

The main problem in my oppinion is the fact that we can't sell stuff for a decent price in the npc
Seriously, everything is 1 kama, except for etheral weapons.

You won't get rich selling to NPCs, but they're a good place to sell the junk equips you don't shatter for runes. At higher levels, you drop a ton of stuff like that. I usually make a pass by the closest NPC when I have a shortage of pods. Dumping accumulated junk is profitable and pod friendly.

I don't really care if the economy is going cheaper, or whatever. I play the rest of the game, not "shop-keeper". I'm happy to sell items based on the effort it took for me to obtain it, rather than some sense of "average price".

Do I want it for myself? I'll keep it. If not, then I'll sell it for whatever it'll sell for. I need the inventory space more than an item I don't even want. Kamas are pretty irrelevant if you don't buy anything (and unless you're level 200, most equipment you buy will eventually be out-levelled).

This post has been edited by GoldfishGod: 28 Oct 2009, 18:54

Nice wall of text, too bad that it just proves that you got no idea about dofus its supply and demand based economical system.

I am poor.

I can play the game infact I have been playing it for 3 years.

The point of what I'm trying to prove is that, when the server initally started I bet you people wernt bloody using profession as there source of money??

And due to the amount of In-active players, New Players, and players that just stand around chatting we are facing a problem where selling gear isnt going to be the easiest thing around. Nor is selling mats.

The problem is simply not enough kamas are being produced through the system. The game is unproprtioned.... Yes it might be easy for certain people to sell there drops and gain kamas, but thats not helping the rest of the economy..... I can actually say I have been at stages where I have had 35mk in the bank... But that simply isnt an option anymore. And its exactly whats happening in the real world.... Let me explain. (For all those that can't commment on something productive yet bag people out.)

In the RW we are spending so much money especially Gen Y on PLastic cards, spending money that we techniacally don't have.... which leaves everyone paying back money they dont have. Which also means that big Coporations end up with all your money. Same goes here in Dofus..

Lets say our drops are our credit cards, We sell the drops to gain money, and usually us higher lvls and those with alts end up buying these drops or mats. We then produce the gear to sell back to you. So in term we use our credit cards as a money source but end up paying more than the actuall price of the item. So when we buy the gear back we end up spending more on it then what we got for selling the mats to produce it. And then yet again certain people end up with all the money, and not spending it to produce more economy..

So simply all our money we spend gets put into a massive bank, this massive bank we will say is majority lvl 160+, the problem then is that all these 1000's of 160+ end up not playing anymore, or being inactive for months, don't spend much money or just sit arounding chatting to there friends all day... So thats where the money gets wasted!

Another thing is, people are over pricing Items and mats.


There was a reason at one point on Rushu that the whole server was a mass array of bots! You couldnt get in if you were F2P for weeks, you couldn't hardly even see any merchants, and this was because there no kamas and we needed more in the system. BOTS are actuallly keeping the game alive and they arn't as annoying as you may think they are.

people who sit at zaaps talking have little effect on the economy, they are not taking anything from it, they are not giving anything too it

when you are low level, you buy a majority of your equips, or drop them, selling mats you dropped to fund it, well, thats what i did, because there is tons of low levels farming stuff, and bots, these things are cheap

when you get to higher level, you are more likely to farm equips for your self rather than buying them, which needs, oh wait, professions to craft these equips

but because your dropping stuff for yourself you arnt selling it to anyone, so people who cant farm this stuff or don't want to, have to pay high prices for it

so they use professions to make money, bread for example, everyone needs it, so everyone makes it, so the price steadys out

if bots were removed from the game tomorrow, after the obvious rise of scrolling mats by about 1million percent, people will start to farm them again, it will become easier for low levels to make money, the prices wouldnt go to what they are now, but they would eventually steady out because the demand for them is too great to remain unfarmed

its all supply and demand, i probably didnt explain it that great, but i gave it a go xD

There was a thread about how is the money, kamas, created in dofus before. I am lazy to seacrh for it.

As far as I know there are only these ways how NEW kamas can enter the server:
- kamas players receive from quests
- kamas players drop in fight
- kamas from headhunter quests
- kamas from selling drops to NPCs

I am not low level and I make my kamas various ways. I am not the best profession person (far from that), but I do have a decent, lets say above average, access to professions of various kinds. If I use my professions to make kamas (by selling items I create, or I mage or whatever) or I sell drops, none of these activities produce new kamas. They produce new kamas for me hehe. But at the same time someone else loses kamas buying my items/drops, paying for my services. Same is valid if I spend my kamas.

So the question here is: where the heck are all this kamas from in the server? We all know how much kamas we can drop by fighting, winning headhunter, doing quests or selling stuff to NPCs. Barely any relevant amount, especially when you level higher.

I keep most of my kamas on one char or two chars who actually do the trading. Kamas on my other chars are basically for zaap fees etc. So after a week or two, when I play a lot, these chars dont have any ridiculous amount of kamas on themselves dropped in their fights. Lets say, when I look at one of my alts after 2 weeks, instead of 20kk I see 40kk on it or more (depending if I was just running dungs or farming easy mobs, the latter happens to create more new kamas). So if I on all my chars have lets say 500kk of newly created kamas after 2 weeks (I feel I am overestimating), it is still nowhere near the amount of kamas I have made in that time. Which may be often few dozens of millions.

I do not want to underestimate the amount of new kamas made by new (and old) players by simply dropping them in fights or doing quests, but I do think lot of the NEW kamas are made by bots and bots do them the same way...they drop them in fights. (bots and those who run them of course sell the dropped resources too, but thats just transferring kamas from players to bots).

And this way bots keep the economy running...or ruining whatever way you look at it.

Maybe Ankama shall introduce more in game ways how to make NEW kamas appear, and mobs in f2p areas shall not drop kamas...and then we would prolly see prices of items being much much more closer to what you can drop in fights and/or barter would be more often.

This post has been edited by meatraw: 29 Oct 2009, 06:59

As long as there are players, there will be buyers, as long as there are buyers there will be sellers, and so on. If you at some point have managed to gain 35mk with your 65 level, it is still possible as you know the way to do it, and thus I really dont understand the point you are trying to make.


People are not spending money on credit cards, credit cards are only objects which are used to transfer money from person X to person Y. You go to a bank and deposit lets say 1500€ on to your bank account which your credit card is tied to, thus giving the bank 1500€ cash and in exchange them putting 1500€ on to your account. Once you go home you will still have that 1500€ (to simplify this, no transfer costs), except it is in electrical form. So what you are saying is wrong. Big corporations have expenses too, they have to (depending on type) buy resources and materials, pay bills (taxes, permits, etc included) and salaries for its workers.


In the first sentence you are saying we sell our credit cards? Doesnt make sense. We are not using credit cards as a money source, we are using credit cards as means of transferring money from person X to person Y. In order for someone to buy something he or she has had to have made the kamas/money in some way, in Dofus most likely by selling drops and so the money circulates.


At the same time there are people generating more money to the economy, the money flow does not stop.

This post has been edited by eotkodekff: 29 Oct 2009, 16:24

Tne flow does not stop because even those lv160+ players are constantly creating new characters and levelling them.

The low levels VASTLY outnumber the epic level players on a given server.

I have been at the opening of three servers and started the first month that Dofus went live on the Rushu (5? yrs. ago) server, and people were definitely using their professions,right from the start, and making good kama from them. The only one that was slow to start, was Tailor. I knew players that had level 100 in farmer and baker with in days.

But players were not so dependent on someone else providing good equipment pieces, because they were out hunting equipment drops, working in groups of 6 to 8 to get full equipment sets, all the way up to Scara and Kwak for the mid (back then) 30/50 level players.

I believe that the new-ish power/leeched leveling method, of raising levels (caused mostly, by the higher level limit 200) is much more at fault, for the difficulty we find today. Because so many players try to shortcut the leveling time, they no longer spend time on drop hunts for mats and equipment pieces, or on getting professions. They chose mobs with little drop/kama reward over mobs with higher drop/kamas but lower xp. There was a time when I could go to spots in Gobball Corners, Taniela and Evil Forest to hunt gobs & prespics and find 10 to 20 other players camping a good drop spawning spot and join in. Now those spots are empty and I seldom hear of anyone forming a drop hunting group on the recruiting channel.

This is why we find rat drop(ping)s just laying around, all over the place, but have to pay hundreds of kama for a piglet skin.





That is exactly opposite, of the way things work. I don't believe you fully grasp the true and damaging inflationary role that bot and kama sellers play in a game economy.

Kama seller *cause* inflation, they do not prevent it. They introduce excess money into the game. They do not create *new* money, per se, but the macros farm in game money resources, so much more efficiently, than mere human players possibly could, that they effectively create money.

The kama sellers allow players to, again, shortcut the game play that creates material drops and kamas (supply).....players buy kamas, then pay someone to leech them to epic level, and have millions for equipment purchases (demand).....but never generate the drops/kamas, that should have happened along the supply/demand path.

That means that there are fewer players grinding mats, and so the mats that they do produce, are sold for higher amounts.
Supply low = Cost high. Players are not "overpricing" things, they are charging for being amoung the few, that still produce rather than leech/power though their leveling.

High level players creating low level alts and outfitting them, buying scrolls for characteristics and professions, to shortcut, has a similar, if less powerful, effect.

So the current inflation (high prices, scarce resources) in the game is caused by bots and to a lesser degree, an aging (alt-creating) player base, not by the scarcity of game kama.

~Gilly


*edited for typo's & clarity...

This post has been edited by Gillie: 29 Oct 2009, 23:09

I am amused by a single conversation that talks about people overpricing items and mats and also says that everything is being sold for too low a price. The issue isn't that the economy is broken, it's that some people have trouble getting rich, and so they grumble about things that make it hard to get rich. If you want to get rich selling mats, it's very simple. Figure out what items you can get that people are willing to pay kamas for at a price worth your time, go fight monsters or craft or whatever to get that item, and sell it.

Bots hurt the game by reducing the level of achievement required to do things, draining money from the economy that should be in-game rewards for people for doing things, and sending it instead to companies leeching off of the game system, who in turn sell in-game goods to people (in exchange for real money) who have done NOTHING to merit them. In general, when I hear someone talking about buying kamas from traders, I report them to Ankama, and I would not be in the least bit sympathetic if their account were deleted. Sharing accounts is relatively only kinda bad, buying/selling kamas, accounts, or goods is something for which the community should have zero tolerance.

A good and very interesting analysis, Gillie.

I'm not sure about this though:

"Kama seller *cause* inflation, they do not prevent it. They introduce excess money into the game. They do not create *new* money, per se, but the macros farm in game money resources, so much more efficiently, than mere human players possibly could, that they effectively create money."

This puzzles me a bit, since kama sellers can't create kama, they can only gather it via bots. The kama they drop is certainly new, but it's a small fraction of what they eventually can sell to players. Much more of that is from selling mats. Variations in bot activity can certainly influence the overall kama supply though.

Still, you've given me a different slant to think about.

This post has been edited by lazaustin: 29 Oct 2009, 20:11

He is talking about credit, not debit card! And you are talking about debit card.

With the real credit card you can use more money than you really don't have on your account (there is a limit for possible overdraft, of course). In fact many real world economies support the idea of living in credit.


Nonetheless, I don't agree with the OP overall.


@Gillie
Bots are less efficient than humans, but they are never bored or tired. That's why they can compete with real players.


@lazaustin
I'm not sure if "new" bot kamas are so insignificant. Tofus used to drop a lot of kamas and they easily out weight the price of tofu drops.

This post has been edited by Nikto: 29 Oct 2009, 20:45

You may be right Nikto, too bad we can watch some of those fights. You wonder how much 8 lv9 cras or sadi's can actually get from 3 tofu. Especially since it gets multiplied by a few hundred fights a day for each bot mob.

The way to look at it is, that when the Developers are creating the game, the math for balancing the amount of *new* money vs. *lost* money (zaaps, marriage, abandoned accounts, crafting, etc.), is set up based on an average player model. An average player, only plays for a portion of a day.

A macro (bot) can and does run from maintenance to maintenance, unless stopped. So, whereas, you or I might get a team to hunt boars, and drop several resources and some kamas each for a couple of hours, the bots will run a team of 8 for 23 hours...without pause or hesitation.... and get 8x the regular drops/kama, as well as, max PP things like: scrolls, ephemerals weapons, parchments, Boar Set pieces, and such. They will get much, much more, than we would get in our day of hunting.

They sell what they can to the NPC for still more *new* money, which is the reason the NPC payouts have been so severely nerfed, over the years.

Imagine the amount of kama created with dozens (100's even?) of these bots on dozens of servers, for years on end.....

This oversets the designed game dynamics, causing far more money to be circulating in the game than was planned for by the Devs., which messes up the balance, creating an inflationary effect. As with real life inflation, our kama ends up buying a lot less. The biggest threat is that regular players get so disgusted with not being able to compete or buy the nice equipment because the kama-buyers cut them out of the market by overpaying and inflating prices, that they all leave. The kama-buyers are not enough to keep the game going by themselves.

This is how it was explained to us, on another game's dev blog. That game suffered from unchecked macro exploits, and inflation became so bad, that players started dropping from the game, like flies in a RAID factory, and in spite of last-minute efforts to correct and revive it, the game closed down.


@Nikto, by efficient, I only mean in terms of the volume of kama & resources they can collect from the game, per day, compared to a human player.

~Gilly

That makes no sense as you just said that we arnt going out dropping for our selfs?? BOTS produce mats and kamas and they sell mats at lower costs because they have higher amounts... Not the over way around. How can you say that 100's of macro Auto bots in groups of 8 have less Mats then we would if we went out... If bots wernt here then we wouldnt have any MATS... because the simple facts are that we are lazy. And yes like you said we shorcut the game... We dont have the time to go out and Farm for MATS anymore.... And I bet you cant say you do all day either??

Do you know what happens ifthere's not much money? Then stuff gets cheaper. So if a gob hat is 40kk per example and then half the money disappears, then it won't take long until the price goes down to 20kk.

Your whole threads is about how much money there is, but it simply does not matter. It doesn't matter at all whether everyone has 10kk or 500 million kamas or something. Would everyone be rich if they had 500 millions. No, because then, a gob hat would cost 800 millions or so.

The value of all kamas is equal to the value of all items times the speed of trade. And since the speed of trade is about the same all the time, the value of kamas is the valuwe of all items. So if there are more items, the kamas are worth more, if there are more kamas, then the kams are worth less. So if everyone would have 2x as much kamas suddenly then NOONE will have more money, they will only have more kamas but they will be able to buy exactly the same stuff with it and not a bit more. The only thing really affected is NPC goods, and in dofus, that's hardly anything.

So yeah, there you got it. It doesn't matter for a second how many kamas there are, because supply and demand will always make it so there's not a difference. Actually, you should be happy when there's less and less kamas, because that means that your kamas will be worth more.

Work something out-I made 20mk in a weekend from 3mk of skeunk souls (haggled down to 500kk each) got 2 skins... I know this might not be reliable, but I'm on 4 skins from 14 souls now... Point is there are plenty of good drops out there-get a team and hunt them

@gillie

Perfectly good point on bots selling to NPCs and one I hadn't thought about. That would radically raise the amount of kama bots can gather.

Notice too that Ankama is actually acting as a monetary authority would in regulating how fast kama can accumulate in the economy. Add in the bot banning activities (which destroys some of that accumulated kama) and they have at least a little control here.

The harder you work, the greater the rewards. I've noticed since the dawn of Rushu that there are many players that don't farm monsters and are continually poor; these are generally the guys who do nothing in the game, but zaap-sit and expect to make money without putting any effort in.

Recently I spent 7 complete days (apart from off-loading when running out of pods) at the Bottomless Swamps and the rest of theCrocodyl area - much to the amusement of the rest of my guild. In this time I dropped over 80 Wind of Panic Scrolls, 4000 Crocodyl Meats, 1600 Crocodyl Scales and around 1000 Chief Crocodyl Scales. Not who is laughing I am coining it in? ;p

Hardcore!

It was like being at work, repetitive and often boring. But at the end of it all I have made a few million kamas and got my name twice on the Kanama leaderboard!

Might do it again in a few weeks in fact, it was strangely hypnotic lol

This post has been edited by RikkiL: 30 Oct 2009, 13:38

Haha, i got across your merch once. I was like what the heck is this guy doing?

One gets into a sort of rhythym when repetitively farming mobs on familiar maps. Kinda like a baseball pitcher in the zone. I don't even like to be disturbed when I'm doing this. You get to the point that your mostly waiting on the monsters to move, you're own moves are so easy.

From what Alyss-Sin said in her Dofus 2 thread:



It doesn't look like we will be able to camp the best class maps for resource grinding, any more, once they launch 2.0.

~Gilly

Well that will at least reduce the boredom factor.

I never said they had "less Mats then we would if we went out"..... I said they got more because they do not pause or hesitate and can maintain a full team every minute Dofus is online.

They sell everything the NPC's will buy, and only sell to the community whatever is left over. They do *not* sell at lower prices, they sell for whatever the market will pay. If they sold at lower prices, the gazillion boar leathers they harvest out of the Astrub forest, stealing the mobs from newbies, would drive the price down into the ground....but the price of boar leather remains high, second only to piglet leather.

As for the *lazy*, speak for yourself, because, yes I do spend 80% of my day hunting resouce mobs.....I just never sell any of it. Frankly if the mats were available at a reasonable price (by that, I mean for less than the finished craft will sell for), then I would far rather buy my mats and hunt more interesting and dangerous mobs.

There are fewer and fewer newbies in this game, and the ones that try to hunt the low level mobs around Astrub and Incarnum, can't compete with the attacking speed and sheer numbers of the bot teams.

~Gilly

Yes indeed I got those two mixed up, sorry about that. Anyhow what you buy with your credit card, you will eventually have to pay it by a way or another.

I think hardest part in getting kammas for str chars is around when need get moo set because all the time all set and all parts is normal price an then moo fw mk very hard to get for newbies. But how i know very much peoples in dofus buy kammas for real money so they easy get all what they need. I can`t say that its hard to get kammas but i can`t say thats easy...

True, but you spend money you don't have. And often bank doesn't have this money, too, as in many countries banks are allowed to give more credits than the actual money they have and even more than their market value.
So, in fact economics that encourages people to live in credit often operates with fully virtual money.

In Dofus the same situation is practically impossible as you can't lend more money than you have, unless some kind of money substitute is invented.

To think of it, it may be possible to create a fully working banking system in Dofus. Much easier on heroic server (because it's quite possible there to get back at least part of the debt if the debtor refuses to pay), but can be done on regular servers, too, if the bank has support from server elite.

I never could understand why people hog a map.. all that time waiting around is time wasted killing something else on another map.

This post has been edited by RikkiL: 31 Oct 2009, 17:19

Haha you guys got it easy now, back in the day PMF would cost like 12-18mk.

Moo had dropped so much in price it's not even funny.

Check dofus bestiary. If it is accurate, most monsters in astrub area drop 50-70 ea. So next time you see a bot fight, you can also say: "Aah 200 new kamas for which noone worked for have just been pumped into economy of my server".

http://www.dofus.com/en/mmorpg-game/monste...eatures-fields/

I think the biggest problem with any MMORPG's economy is when the Developers decide that some sort of money should be created without any representation of actual wealth. Just imagine how messed up the real world would be if you could go out in the woods shoot a dear and just at the moment of death it poops out few Euros, Rubles or Dollars.

You do not need money in this game. Join a guild that actually works together. NEVER sell any mats to an npc no matter how useless you think they are because someone needs it for something.

And if you want money, gather rescources, craft, do the "Jobs" this game provides for you to make money. It just like life, the more you do this job (also killing monsters for their drops could be considered) the more money you are gonna be able to make.

As for jamason your post, deer do drop currency when you shoot them, its just kinda attached to the bone all bloody and requires a buyer

Yes in the real world you could sell the meat, gizzards, fur, horn and hoof, but no where in its bloody mess well you find a quarter unless the deer swallowed it. Which is my point. Without kamas in a drop players would need acquire wealth via trade, items for items. Without kamas you would need to collect mats find a crafter to make what you want and more then likely offer extra mats or something you can craft for his service. With a trade system instead of a false wealth system where kamas are generated without an actual representation of "kama worth"; like in the real world, One Dollar = such in such amount of real gold, (well it use to mean that it much more complicated now) you would see groups of people working together for drops and professions would mean so much more! As for BOTS, some crafty greedy company will always find a way to exploit a game system. The only way to really get rid of them is to hunt them down aggressively. Ankama really needs to do this better or at least let trusted P2P players agro the crap out of them without lose of honor! I would volunteer.

Dunno, it's not gonna be appreciated at places like fungus and ghosts.