buying kamas
As you know there are 100s if not 1000s of spamming bots in dofus that they tell people to buy kamas from their websites.A lot of people have problems with making fair kamas so they buy from the websites.Why Ankama doesn't make her web shop selling kamas? She will make more money and people wont't buy from the bot's websites.The bot companies won't have money for making new bots and the bot spamming will stop.What do you say guys ?

They will just undercut ankama's prices, thus making it legal to buy kamas from ankama but still benefitting the bots....this system would just make those who COULD afford to buy kamas get ahead of the game while those who can't be at a disadvantage

this happens and now -.-

Not half as much as if it was sanctioned by Ankama. If Kama buying was LEGAL, then hell yes I could easily go out and buy 30 mk....which would mean I would not care if I spent 12 mk on a Minotot headgear, which would mean that sellers would up their prices....which means people who can not afford to buy kamas would have to work twice as hard to buy the same equips I can with a few strokes of a mouse.


However it is ILLEGAL now, Bots sell their kamas for way higher price then they would if ankama came out with a shop (like I said undercutting ankama's prices..ankama charges 20 dollars for 3mk then bots would charge 16 dollars for 3 mk etc so no Ankama would not make money). Since it is illegal to, and if your caught your account is banned this stops many many MANY players from buying the kamas.

one word : ogrines

I can't read the ogrine blog, all I know is supposedly you can purchase them to change sex, color, and/or name of your character...can you purchase them and exchange for kama?

Its not illegal, just against Ankamas ToS.

It is illegal. It's ankama's property and therefore you can get sued.

I stand corrected, forgot about that. (Ankama owns it)

I just love how the OP characterized Ankama as female out of nowhere instead of using "they" or another gender neutral variant. I like it though, seems to be fitting for them.

This post has been edited by Greeeeeen: 4 Nov 2009, 00:10

Same It says today we're going to talk about blah blah blah and then it doesn't give any information at all.




They probably used a translator which translated the proper usage into 'She'.

This post has been edited by Alyss-Sin: 4 Nov 2009, 02:21

Even if ankama were to make a kama selling site or so it will mess up the dofus economy. Imagine everyone I mean everyone relied on buying kamas. People will stop crafting materials to meet our needs and then what would be the point of kamas if you can't find anything to buy off of?



-xdark-osamodax

In my native language Ankama should be referred as "she" according to the grammar rules. And if OP isn't a native speaker he/she may use "she" for Ankama in his/her native language as well.
Also if I remember correctly in English every inanimate object that has name becomes "she" instead of "it". Like Excalibur and Santa Maria (one of the Columbus' ships) should be referred as she.

There are 2 kind of people people who can afford to buy and others that cannot. ankama cannot stop it. wealthy people can buy kama easily just because they CAN. For people who cannot or trying not to cheat you still can sell your items to them for high price which mean you can gain a lot of kama just by maging few little items. so basically you working the same just everything become more expensive, it not hurt economy since you can craft items that now will cost lots more.

even if bot sites will sell cheap kama they will totally fail because people will like to buy from ankama that will not scam them rater than pay real money to site that easily can take your money and go away. Its like buying at online shops, no one will buy from shop with bad reputation if you have the option to buy from good reputation shop, right?

for people who scared of ban they can just create new account to get the money.

Yes, it does hurt the economy, or rather, everyone else. Since the value of all items is equal to the the value of all kamas (barring trading speed), you're essentially stealing money from everyone who's not buying kamas. Yes, they'll still have the same amount of kamas but these kamas will be worth less, so they got less money.

Just think of this: you got 10mk and the suddenly the price of everything doubles because lots of people are buying kamas from ankama. So, how useful are your 10mk then?

There is no such thing that suddenly everything doubles most of the time you can feel if the prices are going up or down and you can prepare yourself for it. such thing i do feel so when i know the price of something going up i buying a lot of it than wait a little and sell. but you right if you not flexible you gonna lose much money as always
btw if you have 10mk and do nothing with them its probably because you dont know how to invest them right which means you dont really need it.

Some of you who claim buying kamas is illegal should do some light research and use common sense. Ankama has no authority over what you do outside of the game. You go to www.buymydofuskamasplz.com and make a purchase, said website delivers your kamas - as long as there is no dialog in-game, ankama can do nothing about it.

And will all this talk, eliminating bots is actually a lot simpler than ankama wants to think. There are dozens of ways they can get rid of them;

1) Make new accounts require a phone verification. Limit say, 2 accounts per number. The bot owners, seeing how there are hundreds/thousands on each server would have to spend $20 (minimum) on prepaid cellphones to authorize the account per TWO accounts. They would take a HUGE loss and would have to up their prices assuming they went through the trouble of buying the phones, etc. This would hinder the small % of players who have more than 2 p2p accounts but that can be sidestepped by using a home and cell for verification.

2) Place a random button at the beginning of battles. Random mind you, say a 1 in 50 chance. If the button isn't clicked in the time frame, account receives a warning (behind the scenes). After so many, the account gets banned. This would only be for initiating a fight, not being attacked - so AFK players don't get caught up in being, well... AFK.

3) Limit the number of accounts per IP address. This would screw them up hardcore as I can tell you they have anywhere from 15-20+ accounts being ran on one machine thus one IP address. I use a crappy laptop for dofus and have 8 accounts opened (2 p2p, 6 f2p) when I farm mats outside of Astrub and this laptop is really crappy.

There are other ways I can name but people don't seem to understand that no matter what they say, Ankama will never get rid of the bots. Not for lack of resources but they require the bots to maintain server population for active players. The economy relies on this as well. You never know, Ankama could have their own kamas selling website and you would never know...

why dont you stop farming and just play fair?
i got a great labtop that can run 10 dofus's easy but i dont because its not fair -.-
but i do like your button sounds like it could work or something like that

What the hell are you talking about stop farming? Whenever you collect mats to work your profession you are farming. The word farming means collecting in quantity... It is 100% fair and part of the game.

Same here, tho personally I sometimes refer to THEM as bunch of.... individuals.

Ankama sellling kamas wont solve anything.

Lol. F from economy. Lets say +20 turq costs 200mk on my server. Now someone worked hard enough to make kamas for it in game. Now hypothetically I see that some guy is selling a turq for 200mk. So I buy 300mk from some buykamasfrome.com and overpay that turq. It is still the same +20 turq but suddenly it costs 300mk and not 200mk. So value of one kama is less. Before I buy that turw, the owner of 200mk had value of turq in kamas. Now he owns only 2/3 of the value he owned. Only change is that I bought 300mk from kama sellers. Hypothetically...

Of course, Blazeron exaggerated well by saying that suddenly because of kama buying all prices would double - it was just an example how it works. With more kamas coming into game from kama sellers, it would be natural to expect prices of items and mats to rise (expresed in kamas).


On the other hand, kama buying is not new and is going on since...like I dont remember when because I dont play even 2 years. So it may also be vice-versa - prices on items decrease if people buy less kamas.

Other influences are involved of course.

Printing money (which is what kama sellers basically do to every servers economy) never brought a solution other than huge inflation.

This post has been edited by meatraw: 6 Nov 2009, 03:32

Such will inflate the economy

keep farming don't listen to him I always buying those cheap mats for my professions




Dont forget that Dofus is a game not work if you chose to earn your kama by working and not playing you just punish yourself.
With your case I just gonna spam mass crafting/maging as i do from time to time when I lack of money to buy myself new item. I do support bots as mats farmers/workers so I be able to buy cheap mats.


This post has been edited by SaddiXxX: 10 Nov 2009, 15:11

Off topic? Or still not able to understand that kamas are just kamas. Kamas have no value outside of what you can get for them. Their value over time changes again only relative to what was kama worth before. Same as currency in real world. More bots, mean more kamas. Hence kamas degrade in their value. The fact that bots sell their drops too works contrary and to some extent works against the inflation. Keep in mind, kamas you pay for cheap scrolling mats are resold by bots for real money.

Scrolling mats price is for us, players, a positive effect of bots. However, bots certainly push prices in general up because they create kamas. Just like if new money is printed without being covered by real output.

We will never know the real data behind kama farming/selling economy and hence we cannot tell to what extent markets depend on it. But I can hardly ignore their presence and pretend that economy of any server is totally independent from how much kama is bought. I admit, I do not have enough data to make any smart decisions regarding where do prices go next except that I can always go and check on older servers than the one I am at.

I dont have problem with bots myself, but their presence pushes prices in average only up. If prices go down, there are other pressures which cause to do so. Such as lowered/aging player base. These may be stronger and result in general decrease in prices. If you live in different world and you are fine with it, so be it. But if you basically claim that this issue is irrelevant to any server's economy, I am certainly not going to agree.

Fortunately, at least server I am playing on, Rosal, always had kama sellers back then when I started playign and prolly before as well, and their existance is pretty much influencing markets as long as I can remember. In fact, I do not even believe we could possible imagine how would markets look like these days if there were no bots ever. Many stuff would be simply so cheaper....but at the same time 1 kama would be worth more in terms of what you can buy with it.

One aspect which I particularily do not like about kama selling is that people who buy kamas have huge advantage in the game.

Actually, it's pretty hard to understand.

And you are a bit wrong here. Kamas sold by kamas-farmers don't work exactly as printing press in real world. Freshly printed bank notes aren't "backup'ed" so they only increase the amount of money in circulation and drive prices up boosting inflation.
Kamas farmed by bots were acquired via normal in game means of money making, i.e. the work was done and some goods dropped thus these kamas are secured. Though the bots farm kamas differently from real people as they don't need to eat, to sleep, etc.

Also I want to note that your example with turq doesn't work well if we are talking about global economical phenomena. No matter how much people pay for exclusive items markets can be stable, because exclusive items aren't on sale often. The other thing that kamas-buyers overpay for regular items and this really affects the economy especially if these people buy kamas regularly.

This post has been edited by Nikto: 11 Nov 2009, 11:34

Ok. I have an explanation for both the Excalibur and Santa Maria.
Excalibur (never heard of it referred to as a she, but i will explain anyway) was an item possessed by King Aurthur or whoever hundreds of years ago, and back then anything that was an inanimate object POSSESSED/OWNED by a MAN was considered a she, not because the English language dictated it so, but simply because men often found strange ways to get attached to objects and would much rather call it "she" than "he", because homosexuality is commonly frowned upon(i don't frown upon it though. if u are homosexual then by all means have fun ).
The Santa Maria was a ship and all sailors/pirates would ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS refer to ships as "she." This is evident in the fact that most ships have feminine sounding names, like, Santa Maria. Again, it's one of those strange possessive love things. But, in our day and age, a new ship and sword named Santa Maria and Excalibur, respectively, would probably bear the title of "it." Again, not an English thing, just kind of a weird possession thing.

Sorry for changing topic. I just wanted to clear that up for her.

This may just be me, but I feel like most players would prefer the safer and easier to use (no chance of scamming through trading with shifty characters) option of buying Kamas from Ankama, provided the functionality was visible and user friendly enough. Besides, having an option to buy Kamas from Ankama would probably change player attitudes about unauthorized Kama sellers, and thus cause the unauthorized sources to lose business. So even if the pricing isn't as competitive, there still would be some beneficial effects of Ankama deciding to sell Kamas.

There is no doubt that prices of top-end gear on Shika have suffered from kama buying. Turqs which used to cost 50mk now cost 80mk.

There is a perfectly decent solution to bots: CAPTCHAs after every 20th f2p fight. You'd then have a bot free server for 6+ months, or indefinitely if Ankama kept ahead of the botters attempts to crack it.

I also think Ankama could trace the kamas to a buyer then name, shame and ban them. Frankly, that would elimate most of the problem.

We could also have a switch that ignores F2P players outside of guild/group. No more bot spam for P2P, yet F2P could use the channels again.

The last requires the least programming and should be implemented asap.

Yes a few bots are P2P. And quite costly for the botters if they're banned.

Seeing as how it's this easy to tackle the problem, and that legit kama buying would ruin the game balance (and thus the whole point for many players) I hope Ankama never do it.

I dont agree. Bots do the same stuff as if ankama decided to magically create kamas and give it to players. With bots, these kamas are given to those who pay with the means outside the economy of dofus. It doesnt bear any relevance, whether bots magically spawn kamas in their inventory or whether they drop them in automated fights.

Yes example with turq wasnt maybe good enough, or better to say, other variables play more important role than in pricing of some regular stuff. Still, principle is the same.

I'm sure that significant part of money kamas-farmers wield comes from selling drops. So this money isn't magically created.
Also unlike Ankama bots are still limited in the speed they can earn kamas, i.e. they can't fight monsters faster than they respawn, and they can't drop more than it's programmed by Ankama.

Probably my idea will be clearer if you regard time as a resource. Bots and players need to use time to acquire kamas, but Ankama doesn't. Also Ankama isn't limited in no way but players and bots are limited in the money they can possibly gain for the given time.


@Uaebytilf
Nations and sometimes towns are referred as she. Doesn't go well with your explanation.

It may depend on your English: British or American, but I never saw Excalibur referred as "it" in British books or when people speak, not sure about spoken American, but books published in the US use "she". The same goes for any ship that sails and has a name.

And no, it's an English thing, as other languages have different gender systems. Excalibur in my language is "he" (with no variants) and the ship will be changing gender depending on the name and what word exactly was used (i.e. he for ship and she for Santa Maria, and both he and she can be used in the same text referring to the same object).

In any case thanks for trying to help. I'll check some linguistic and grammar books later.

This post has been edited by Nikto: 11 Nov 2009, 12:11

Selling bot farmed drops doesnt produce anything new. It is not like when real people drop something. Kamas from sold drops get resold. Hence these kamas are not lowering total kamas in circulation but neither increasing. So we are left with those magically created kamas which drop in bot fights directly and these push prices up.

As to limit on how much kamas bots can make. I do not think bots are limited much in this way other than demand and even in the past, activity varied. During peaks bots used to roam almost any map (possibly they could have been limited by respawn rates in this case), but most of the time not all f2p maps have been farmed all the time. Prolly not enough demand from players atm at least on Rosal.
Time is not an issue for a bot in Dofus, i think.

Also, difficulties in farming kamas by bots, throughout time have been prolly always reflected in price of kamas. But that is off topic.


edit: as much as I do find interest in any questions of economy, I would much rather be able to LOG IN the game dear Ankama....

This post has been edited by meatraw: 11 Nov 2009, 18:32

You forget about limitations on drops and xp set for accounts from one IP.
I'm not sure if it works only for one map, but not so long ago I opened 100 bwak eggs on the same map and after a few fights xp started to decrease. Bwak is 100% drop, so I couldn't observe the decrease in drops, but while farming stuff on the same map with my accs only I had a feeling my drop rates were lowered. So I had to move to other maps.
Of course, bots can change maps and they do it. But if system works for more than one map their drops should decrease with time.
By the way, because of this anti-bot system it makes no sense to open more than 10 souls on the same Arena map if you log on the full team.

And, of course, bots are limited not only in game but also outside it. Kamas farmer can't make more bots than the computer/server/whatever can effectively control. It's purely technical limitation. This limit can be set on 10 or 100 or maybe more bots but still it exists. Anakama has no limitation like this and if they open a cash shop they can make as many billions of kamas as they need in a matter of seconds. Bots just can't compete with this speed.

Demand for kamas is another thing. I can bet everything I have and even more that much more people will be buying kamas if they could do it legally. And this is actually one more limitation for bots. You and I won't go buy kamas from someone we don't know. But legally? When you need to buy your turq and you are an adult and you just received your salary? Why not?

I agree with you in general, I just disagree with your statement about bots magically making kamas out of nothing. But it looks like here we can't find a consensus.

No we cannot. Just because I think if people on server want to buy suddenly 10x more kamas, there will be supply. Easy as that. If I see bot maps full again, I may think that bots are not making enough kamas. And yeah, legal kama selling by Ankama would pretty much ruin the whole economy even more so.

Well i think first of all buying kamas is noobish second of all if Ankama makes the site for buying kamas maybe more than half the ppl playing dofus will stop playing cuz first of all the economy will go and rise : take for an example a gobal hat, if it cost 5000k and 100 ppl buy kamas and then buy this gobbal hat for 20 000k a lvl 10 wouldnt be able to buy one if he doesnt buy kamas
its just a little example
So i am against buying kamas, and still not many ppl buy kamas on sites so its still the same economy but if Ankama makes it legal everybody would start buying kamas and no point of playing for it so it would be some serious **** for the guys who cant afford buying kamas.

i know 2 guys who bought 1mk with five bucks from some website....
is it even legal? i wanna know <.<

Err doesnt matter if its legal or not, noone gonna sue you over breaking terms of service. It is against terms of service and you would get banned if you get caught. So do not do it. And it ruins the game. Quite badly.

Basically it would create two class groups in Dofus - The royalty and the beggers.

They royalty would only just buy kamas to get whatever they are needing at the time, no worries, no effort, no grinding. Click-click...done.

The beggers who cant buy kamas would be stuck grinding things over and over and over for days and weeks to make the kamas needed to buy the inflated prices of the items they are needing.

Nah, its better with all of us stuck in the rut with all the grinding and leaving those willing to buy kamas to risk it by themselves.

Edit - spelling >.<

This post has been edited by SilentRevenge: 21 Nov 2009, 22:07

Check the Ogrine section of the board. I posted a google translation of part of one of Ankama's recent French development blog entries. I also put a link in that post to the original French blog post for those that wish to examine it first hand.

You will be able to exchange ogrine for kama with other players, via markets that Ankama will put into the game.

Players will be able to buy ogrine for real cash, trade it in these in game markets for kama, and then use the kama in any way they normally would, such as purchase an item desired from the normal markets. This essentially turns players into kama sellers/buyers and item-mall providers/users, while distancing Ankama from the transactions and allowing them to not officially offer either service.

This post has been edited by KA-Dofus: Yesterday, 08:11

what if somebody laggs in a fight and doesn't press the button in time?

hehe last part about server population is true