Wrath wrath is pointless... this once every 4 turns is crap. ANY character has the easiest of means to get out of the way on that 4th turn... i think it should have no charg necisary, and a 2 turn cool down, maybe lower the damage some. but 4 turns for nothing...... its like you can never reach lvl 100 and get your spell as an iop. its pretty sad when you can be out damaged by characters 20 levels lower than you, when iops are suposed to be a damage based class.... we dont even get anything cool, like xelors masiv ap rape, and reduce/reflect damage, srams go invisible, gain 2 mp when the go invisible, can still attack you while they are invisible.... pandas can gain mp, reduce your damage by 20% and 20% to all resistances, make you -30% resistant to them, (if both you and the panda were to do 300 damage on an attack thats equil to the panda reducing you to 180 and the panda doing 390 damage...) iops dont do crap.

This post has been edited by BllOOdraven: 6 Nov 2009, 20:11

Iops are *very* useful in later dungeons - I don't know many other classes that can hit for 2500+ damage in a single hit against most bosses. That's thanks to Wraith.

Pointless?

Hmmm, that fungus I hit with a 3000HP Wrath a few days back didn't think so. He was a wee nubbin after that one.

Are you asking for a Warth buff?

Lets see you want to do 2500-3000 damage per Warth, range 1-8, 7ap is too much too, lets bring it down to 2AP with no limit per turn recast, while we are at this change finctionallity something allong the lines instant kill for all opponents present on map and (just in case) infinite turns of invulnerability for the caster.

You want wrath to be a CC weapon...

Are you complaining about its uses in PvP or PvM? I think it was mainly thought to be used in PvM as a large damage spell. If you are complaining about trying to use it in PvP then don't use it.

Don't get anything cool? Iops have some of the highest damaging spells while still having great map manipulation capabilities such as Jump, Intimidation, and Blow. Iops also have some great +dmg/+dmg% spells as well.

why would i be talking about pvm?...... i do believe i said any "character" nothing about monsters. And no i dont want it to be ranged or have a lesser ap cost, and i dont want it every turn for a cc weapon, (not that, that wouldnt be nice) all im saying is reduce the damage but make it more frequent, even 3 turns would be beter... btw hitting 2.5k-3k on a monster is only slightly more difficult then using a pouching bag.....

This post has been edited by BllOOdraven: 9 Nov 2009, 07:37

Strength iops are an excellent PvP class already, deadly in range and deadlier in close combat. Sword of iop with a proper amount of +range should have a range equal to or greater than those of other classes, and they cant run behind a tree or something to avoid it with the aoe. Add in that you can jump twice a turn, effectively deciding whether or not you want it to be a close combat or a ranged fight, and you have a powerful class.

Yes, nearly every class has a way to avoid wrath, but that is pretty irrelevant when you are already hitting higher than them. Plus, by charging a wrath, you are telling your foe exactly what they are going to do on the turn wrath is up - whether that is use a spell with a large cool down, get out of range, or take your AP, you get to tell them exactly what to do for a turn or die, and that is useful indeed.

This post has been edited by Mentor-III: 9 Nov 2009, 07:51

by useing wrath, you are wasting 7 ap of your turn, when you arnt going to be able to use it on your opponit anyways, you leave yourslef 3 ap to maybe use increase with concentrait, pressure or intim, when you could be supplying the damage that you need in order to try to win, because when that 4th turn comes once if your not close enough for cc 4 turns ago was a waste, and you probably could have killed your opponit by this time. leaving iops with with nothing special, i have +5 range on my character and it proves to fail over and over. SoI isnt really a verry reliable attack unless your in a prism or perc fight, when you can hit more than 1 person, but when you are focused on a single person in pvp that AoE is pretty useless, accept for maybe when somebody tries to block your LoS, but your damage is reduced by 10-30% when your opponit is not on the square you selected.

Right...

learn to play is all I can say. Even before the wrath nerf Iops that relied on Wrath failed more often then they won in pvp. If your SOI is not dependable then you should re-build your character, take a look at your equips, because yeah the range on SOI (boostable) and the damages at that range is immense..of course I am talking High level pvp not low to mid levels <120.

what exactly do u mean by that....


If i have such a huge error in my ways, please anybody is welcome to come find me on the rushu server and show me what im missing about str iops and how unequil they are to other characters.
My ingame name is Nostromo, if you dont find me email me at jay_tea3333@hotmail.com with what time you are usualy on and ill make sure to be on so u can show me where im wrong.

Need to know your level, equips to help you. If your below 120 then pretty much all you will be able to do is level until you hit 143ish and then you can wear moo set and be quite difficult to beat if you know strategy and how to play your Iop. Wrath is not suppose to be, and never will be, a spell that means you will insta-win (like it used to be 1/2 chance to insta-win)

im verry familiar with old wrath.... how i miss those days

and..... iv had rank 10 both bont and brak, not with str tho....

but anyways. no im not 143 and cant use a moo set just yet...

You answered it yourself already:

For what it's worth, most Iops I know initially really disliked the new Wraith but prefer it over the way it used to be now that they've seen its possibilities. The only big problem seems to be when it glitches and the bonus for repeating it doesn't work.

for pvm, the new wrath is verry nice yes, its a 100% chance (usualy, as u said sometimes it glitches and no bonus damage is added) your going to hit the monster in front of you for 2k+ and 3k according to Iazaustin, but in pvp, i would rather take a chance on 1/2.



well, anyways, i supose ill go for a few more mp and getting that orche dofus (h/e u spell it)


ooo yeh, when i originaly posted this topic, i was farely pissed, and was wishfully hoping that i could convince ankama to upgrade iops or somethin.....

ty all for your input, aparantly more people than i thought dont want wrath changed, being so i end my uh.... whining i supose.



Nostromo

Wrath has a 1/100 chance of critical failure, thus it does not have a 100% success rate.

i rounded.... 100% is really close to 99%... as a mater o fact, there only 1 digit away.
and in that case, your saying lashing arrow isnt 100% chance of 2mp loss.

In this case you can't round it up and claim that it has a 100% chance of success, because 100% chance of success means 100% chance of success and as we know Wrath can fail with a 1/100 chance, equivalent to 1%. Lashing Arrow has undodgable MP rape and thus has a 100% chance of removing MP if a) target has MP left b) spell does not critical fail, nevertheless if the spell does fail it won't change the fact that Lashing Arrow does rape MP with a 100% chance.

To further add please use level 6 spells in your examples as thats when the spell is at its full potential, in this case meaning -3MP.

This post has been edited by eotkodekff: 11 Nov 2009, 20:48

you are a shame for the Iop race

no bro, ur wrong. lashing arrow is not 100% chance, it has a 1/100 cf rate as well. meaning only 99% of the time does it reduce 3mp.

iops arnt a race, they are a fictional character in a fantasy game.

and whats wrong with wishful thinking? i live in america, i do believe i have the right to freedom of speech.

Iop are useful? Yes.

In pvm? Yes.

In pvp? Yes.

Are they pvp stars? No.

Are their spells powerful? Yes.

Altho.

With the changes provided by 1.28 and 1.28 which emproved 50% of the dofus classes, adding those to the already very good ones (Xelors, Sadidas ie) and OP ones, pvp talking (Ecas, Srams), all this combined to the Iops staying untouched had underpowered the class. I don't wanna mean we suck, i don't wanna mean we got nerfed, but the collaretal buffs provided to all classes but iops made us kinda no more efficient.

My points are proven by the following statements:

-A iop is supposed to be the scariest cc class of the game, and every other class should strictly avoid it. At the present day, most of iops attack with SoI, jump away and run. We are forced by recent changes to be a runaway class.

-Wrath is good, very good in pvm. But the old one was the one who forced the enemies to avoid cc fight, while now any class can tank us to backup at wrath time. None a single class haven't a spell or a way to avoid wrath nowadays.

-Jump was biased for ages by any single one player who never used a iop. Very few, tho, bitched about Feline leap or flight (wich at least is limited to 3 x turn). Leap is way more op than jump, since costs 1 ap per cell and not alwais you needa cover 5 squares. To all iops out there, i ask: how many times you had to jump to cover 1 or 2 squares to be able to attack? Eachfreakin time half of our aps wastes in this spell.

-Damage. Iop are great damagers, true, altho they need to buff fully to be able to overdamage another str class both from range or cc. Without buffs, a iop's damage ain't that much higher than enemies to permit him to win by resistance.

-We got no ap, mp, reducing dmg, increase % ap mp loss spells, heance each time we fight with range, ap, or mp rapers, we suffer, we suffer even with more than 600 wisdom. Any other str class can at least a)umbewitch +ch up c) buff ap or mp (ecas can do all of this, yay!).Even sadidas has 2 trees for healing and a spell wich steals summons' life even on enemie's summons.

I can go on for ages, i'll be short. We surely doesn't suck, but:

a) A iop to be competitive has to achieve a set and a number of lv 6 spells other hasn't.
b)Must have very high str and dmg, very hgh wisdom, more than 5 mps, and some ap maged equips in order to try kill classes which have hax but totally normal sets. On an even build, A iop would suffer against any eca-cra-sadi. And you can't have all stats pumped up to sexiness.

So, since i fighted as 200 iop, and saw many other 199-200 iops fighting lately, when one with a "normal" epic set (like funguset, berseker) is able to easily win on a Iop who holds 5/6 dofuses, and got an end game set (sucker) with 10 ap base, something isn't good.

not that i care on pvp, i like pvm soooo much so i'm pretty happy with my iop, but i might try to be objective

Reread my post. Lashing Arrow has a 100% chance of removing MP (if target has any left), this is not affected by the spell critical failing or not as it still won't change the fact that Lashing has undodgable MP rape.

ok then, with wrath (not on a crit fail) your going to do mass damage.

and if lashing arrow crit fails... there is no mp rape...
wrath cf.... no mass damage....

This post has been edited by BllOOdraven: 12 Nov 2009, 21:54

You're right in the sense that there can be no mp rape if it doesn't hit, so Lashing Arrow doesn't allows rape mp because it doesn't always hit. However you cannot deny that Lashing Arrow has an undodgeable mp rape when it does hit. Eotkodekff was assuming that if Lashing does hit (disregarding cf's) it'll always rape mp.

Your post about Wrath hitting 100% makes no such assumptions. You admitted yourself that you rounded from 99% to 100%. Eot was merely pointing out that you can't round in this instance. You couldn't really counter his comment so you opted to attack one of his spells to distract from this fact.

Whether Wrath is useful or not is all up to individual opinion. Some players find value in it.

If you really want to improve as a Str Iop why don't you listen to the advice of some of these other Str Iops? Reflect on it and then change your play style.

Daka, you do have a mp loss spell its called cut. As for jump vs. leap, jump requires no los and leap does so that slightly makes up for the usage in ap when u need to only jump 1 or 2 spaces. A lot of classes need to buff fully to do damage, iops are definitely not the only ones. Iops have some of the highest base damage spells(as they should), and good AoE spells. Iops are more useful when there are more targets to hit as not all of em can run from wrath or your team can align say the eney heealer next to you wrath turn. In 1v1 pvp ya iops could use some improvement, but id rather see the game move away from duels which will never be balanced and move back to a group dynamic battle.

As for the OP, you didn't pick the gimmick classes. By the lore of the game, you picked an idiot that goes smash smash smash with a big sword until everything around it bleeds. So thats how your class plays.

And why is their a lashing arrow is op discussion in this thread, this is an iop thread, sheesh.

1)he was being a smartass. why would i say "ooops i cf" in the forum...
That, and why would u count the crit fail probability for wrath and not lashing arrow? If lashing hits it has 100% chance of 2mp loss, If wrath hits, (afterbeing charged) it hits for mass damage. (except this glitch that has been hapening lately)
2)i honostly have no clue what Eot is, i dont see the pic of his avatar, and he could have a pic of any char.
3) asking other iops does not help. theres only one answeres they can give me, level until you can use a moowolf set.
what good is a new set going to do, when others my level are now going to be able to use this set as well? thats the same situation i am in right now. just because my damage goes up, doesnt mean other str characters dont.

This post has been edited by BllOOdraven: 13 Nov 2009, 19:48

i never said anything about it being over powered... i was just using it as an example... soothing brambles would have worked as well.

I think Eot's main is a lv200 enu, but has several others.

He also has more game knowledge than both of us put together.

I'm still waiting for the day when people actually start reading posts, daka said that iops dont have a spell which would give ap or mp, not that they would not have any spells which would reduce mp. As a 200 lvl Iop he probably already knows what Iops can do.


1) I was not being a smartass. I was pointing out that your argument was invalid as you can't round up the figure you had rounded up. Even if Lashing critical fails it does not change the fact that the MP rape it has is undodgable, in other words 100% chance of mp rape. Wrath does not hit for mass damage for sure, consider a low base str and a low str bonus from set, also high earth resistance on the opponent and any possible shields or reflects and the damage wrath does can be very low.
2) I play and have played many different characters of different classes and builds to very high levels, my main being a lvl 199 Enu.


Thanks

This post has been edited by eotkodekff: 13 Nov 2009, 23:59

Basically, just cos wrath is your level 100 spell (and may I say one of the best) Doesn't mean it has to be a 'super spell'. I mean, look what sacriers get. BTM. Now, stop your whining.

So the reason of your post isn't to improve your character, but rather to complain? The original points of your post:

-That wrath is pointless
-That Iops don't get any cool spells

Have already been addressed. Any further discussion with you would be pointless since it's painfully apparent that you haven't been reading the previous posts or you have, but either didn't understand or refuse to understand them.

You obviously can read minds, since you stated that "The only answers they can give me, level until you can use moowolf set". Apply that skill in pvp and I'm sure you'll succeed in everything you do.

Hmmm as am I because he did say "We got no ap, mp, reducing dmg, increase % ap mp loss spells".

First time I read it I thought so too that the "reducing" would imply to ap and mp too, but I do believe it was ment as two different things as I have bolded and italicised in the above quote. So "We got no ap, mp" meaning no +ap or +mp spells, "reducing dmg" referring to possibly shields or reflects, "inrease % ap mp loss spells" increase ap/mp %resistance spells.

Yepzorz, i meant that.

@Ramasse: Ecaflip might not have no los on leap, altho they either have no los on playful, wich grants then to spend few aps to leap while casting 2x playful on non los, even having the opportunity to stay behind an obstacle which the opponenet might not be able to dodge for an attack, or be able exposing himself to the eca nest turn. There is no comparison between SoI and Playful if we talk of 1 vs 1 pvp, SoI gains something in mass pvp (which is dead) while, altho, is superare to have more than 3-4 chars in a pvp allined for a total AoE SoI. Usually, a iop can hit as much targets as ecas, while only "hypotetically" he would beable to stab more.

And remind we talking of str iops if we talk of wrath. Best spell is sword of iop, which surely has a huge max damage (39 if i recall) but also has a really sucky min damage (13). Which means spell can be unrialable unless it's 1/2, and becomes rather useless when facing enemies with decent/good earth resists, while the more linear damage of playful can be far more useful and good in pvp. Remind, also, that in order to achieve 1/2 SoI you need at least a 15 Ch turquoise, while any eca with a decent set using +ch spell can gain it 1/2. And off course, critical hits 1/2 in pvp> a 13-39 dmg spell unless you roll alwais max.

@Touchoff I think you should learn to play a sac before talk. BTM is one of the most reliable and useful spells ingame. NOt only allows you to gain around 100-150 hp per cast (2 ap, 1 ap at lv 200), but it comes in hands in so many ways i think is embarassing for a sacrier complaining about it.

-You can buff up, sacrifice sword, use bloodthirsty to buff 140-150 stats x 2 mere aps any turns, if your enemie doesn't hit you.
-You can use, along with sacrifice, to target a sacrificed ally in order to a) buff yourself or b)change spot with him or c) a+b, making the sac able to cover insane distances or become a danger even if far away on the map.
-Oh, you can heal with that too. Most 200 sacs can cap this spell 1/2, which gives back 100 hps to the targeted. guess what, a lv 6 chafer is damaged by 180 on BDM, and heals 100 if you crit, meaning teorically you can heal up to 600 hp in a turn using 1 ap each cast at 200, 2 ap each cast at 199.
-Oh wait, you got also PainShared. I guess most of sacs feel like they must me the centre of action an don't level this spell to be top-tier hitters? Pain shared + BTM buffs the ally by 120% dmg a turn, and i assure you, a iop hitting bworker 1800 3 times a turn thanks to this has no price.

And yeah, i play also a 199 sac, so i might assume i'm not shouting nosense

This post has been edited by DakatheDampyr: 14 Nov 2009, 14:47

eggrole, i already said, i was whining, and complaining. and no i cant read minds, i went and asked iops in my guild and iops i level with on a day to day bassis, they all tell me the same thing, level untill u get a better set. also, we dont really get that much variety of spells, damage buffs and damage atacks, i countridicted myself when saying "iops are a souly damaged based class," i am still a low level, and dont have as much hp as i would like, so i would be able to sacrifice a turn to buff up so i can out damage other people. and if you would read the posts before replying, you would have already known this.

eot, i could care less that lashing arrow is undodgable, and ok, i supose wrath is not 100%, but 99% rather. there honostly is no need for this argument (as u said). i was simply stating wrath does larg damage when charged. (excluding a critfail or glitch.) sorry for my ignorance in this argument. i apologize

same for you touchoff, please read posts before replying, once again, i have already said i was complaining.

You are the one who brought Lashing Arrow into this debate, not me.

Right... how often would you ever do that? If you're fighting an osa or something, they're gonna punish you with a whipping, dealing insane damage, even if it doesn't crit. Many classes will unbewitch you before those buffs become useful, and if they're not hitting you, they're probably at a distance, therefor AP are better spent getting closer to them, or pulling them out from cover.



Leek pie does all this, aside from buffing, without hurting me. And rarely have I ever not been hit in PvP to such an extent that it becomes neccesary to buff myself with BTM.



This just makes no sense, unless you're an int sacrier, which you don't mention, so by your thinking here I could heal on average 300 back per turn, whilst dealing 1200 (before taking resists into consideration) to my ally, a far more grievous injury than that which they had thus far sustained in all probability.



My PS is level 6, has been since I got the spell, and I always use it coupled with BTM. But... We really have to have our 'ultimate' spell solely for the use of buffing others, when we could easily use other spells instead? While BTM is a little neater than some other spells might be for buffing allies, I really don't feel it's worth us NOT having a better level 100 spell instead. My point was that wrath was a far better and more useful spell (in most situations) than BTM.



Never implied/intended to imply that you were

This post has been edited by touchof: 15 Nov 2009, 11:24

i know i did, i was simply agreeing with u...