Sadida Aggressive Bramble overhaul needed! With all the recent changes to character classes, spells, health, etc. in the last few major releases, I for one feel that there is still one important point that needs to be addressed for the Sadida class. I appreciate some of the other changes (especially to Inflatable).

Aggressive Brambles
Gained at level 60 by a Sadida and is supposedly the BIG attack spell. Well with this spell being 5AP at lvl #5, only one cast per target and damage wildly ranging from 6 - 50 it is just too unreliable an attack for the Sadida. ALmost all sadida's I know end up going to using a staff in place of their spells.

Compare this spell to:
- The Iop spell StrengthStorm which does 36 - 40 damage at only 3AP (2 less than Aggro Bramble) and can be cast three (3) times on a single target. Massively overpowered copared to any other class in attacks.

I almost always fall back on regular Bramble for most of my attacks due to the huge damage range of Aggro Bramble. But even that spell is limited to two (2) attacks per target and does very low damage 10 - 17 at level #5 (even only 11 - 18 at lvl #6) it makes for a weak challenge when fighting an Iop in PvP.

As a level 143 Sadida, it is ridiculous for me to hit a 65 on target with Aggro Bramble due to a low roll.

While I appreciate that Iops' have a place in a group, due to their ability to jump, use Iop's wrath, and Sword of Iop they are so far ahead of a STR Sadida it is unfair in any PvP situation. I can easily be beat by a Iop who is 30 or more levels lower than me.

Proposal
Make some modifications to the Sadida Aggressive Bramble Spell:

1) Change it to allow for two casts per target per turn (and three at lvl #6)
2) Reduce the AP at lvl #5 to 4AP
3) Change the huge lvl #1-#5 damage range from current: 6 - 30, 6-35, 6-40, 6-45, and 6-50 to a new damage range more befitting a high level spell: 6 - 30, 11 - 35, 16 - 40, 21 - 40, 26 - 45, 31 - 50.

As a final note I would love to see some more high level STR-based staff's available for a Sadida to use to put out CC attack's on par with the great number of Intel-based swords available to other classes.

i agree with that

that's a really nice fantasy, but i can't see that happening...in the near future anyway..

iop has str storm as basically its only ranged attack
sadida have bramble masive range, manifold bramble
a lot of summonings etc too

If sadida agressive bramble gets any stronger sadidas are going to become massively overpowered like sacriers are nowadays

Bramble was already nerfed way back when from 3 casts per target per turn to 2 casts. If i remember correctly its damage was reduced too, as it was too overpowered.
You cant compare SS and AB they are not similar in any way, most balanced comparison would be enutrofs Slaughtering Shovel. Those changes which you proposed are way overpowered, have you ever considered getting AB 1/2? Or the impact those changed would make to those who have AB at 1/2 ch rate? Seems like no. If you seriously lose to an iop 30 lvls under you, you are doing something completely wrong.

Its not the class, nor the spell, its the players fault. Study your class better.

I have to agree with eotkodekff. AB does not need a buff. SS and AB have very little in common. SS has an odd range and is an element that can not be boosted well with stat points. (5 points for 1 Intel from 81 and on) AB has better range and is an element that can be boosted well with stats.

When comparing AB to Slaughtering Shovel (now how would you abreviate that?), AB does more damage. Also, Sadidas have better caps for str than Enus do for water.

Lots of classes use weapons as their main attacks. Not just sadidas. And aggressive kicks ass, playing a 165 sadida I have it level 6. Totally worth it. Plus the set piece which lets you use it 2x per turn is nice too. However, I do agree with you, sadida on iop is never balanced. This is common throughout the game however, as we see;
Iop>Sadida
Sacrier>Iop
Sram>Sacrier
Eca>Sram
...
and so it continues.

This post has been edited by touchof: 30 Jun 2009, 20:53

If you look at other 5ap attacks, AB is far too random to make it worth using.

Compare it to Lethal Attack, and the only advantage it has is range, which is offset by the low damage rolls that often seem to pop up.
LA has more casts per target per turn, much better average damage, and far far better crit damage.

Compare it to SoI and I dont think it has any advantages over that at all.

It's only when you hit L160 to get it to L6 AND have the class ring that AB is really worth using at all, and even then you're relying on the 1/2 crits actually giving you a crit hit, as well as missing out on other stats/bonuses by having to wear the class ring. It's a desperation/"I have 4-5ap left and cant hit anything else with Bramble" spell at the moment.

When you're left mainly using a spell gained at L1 as a primary attack spell (a spell that has been nerfed a fair amount as well) or forced to go into CC to do damage - Sadi's are a ranged damage class, dont forget - then it show's there's a problem with other attack spells.

How many other classes use a L1 spell as their primary attack at L150+?

It's not a desperation spell at all, leastways I have never found it so.

I'm a L16X Sadi, and it's not something I'd rely on, certainly before getting the class ring (and as I said there are other things you miss out by wearing that).
Granted it's a lot better at L6 than L5 mainly due to the 4ap cost instead of 5ap (small difference, but every AP counts) but it's still nowhere near as reliable as Bramble, which is the main problem.

When you can use 6ap and do 250-400 damage over 2 attacks (still pretty pathetic, but it is ranged), or use 4ap to do 60-500, I know what I'd put my money on.

It doesnt need massive changes, even changing it to 2 casts a target per turn at L5 and L6 would help, and would bring it slightly more in line with spells like LA and SoI.

On a slightly less serious note, you could remove the LoS requirement from AB (as the brambles come up through the ground) which would make it a lot more useful in a wider variety of situations and give it a more consistent edge over Bramble. It would also offset the random and often low damage.
Before you say anything about removing the LoS, I'd like you to consider Playful Claw, another 5ap spell (at L5) very similar to AB but with far more advantages and far more consistent damage.

Aggressive is doing 40% more damage per AP on average which is reasonable.

Sadis need +10% damage on all spells and the dolls need min 80HP at epic level (you shouldn't be able to Leek them to death).

I'm not a fan of the EQ/PW combo but apart from that sadida design is nice.

what is 1/2 and what is AB

lol im still a newbie but i have a sadida 2 and i want to know what ppl are taking about

1/2 is the critical hit rate and AB is Agressive Brambles your lvl 60 spell.

IDC about AG i find Earlikk and Pink Claw to be a far better use of AP despite the 10% dmg rdc.

however, i do find the limitations on bramble to be a bit stupid. 18 base dmg at lvl 6? come on thats pathetic. The two casts on a single target per turn is a nuiscance but makes think a little more strategically.

I completely endorse this thread. For once players (majority sadis), have gotten together and done something unprecedented in these days of late. Asking for a buff. Thats right, not a nerf a buff. Something everyone could use a bit of these days. ........Except Iops they dont need one.

This post has been edited by Greeeeeen: 4 Jul 2009, 02:21

Beat meh =P

This post has been edited by Murlough: 1 Jul 2009, 07:17

thx for the answer greeeeeeeeen and what server do you play
i need to talk you ingame about advice about sadida

60

lol yeah lvl 60

In this post SS = Slaughtering Shovel
Both have boostable range, AB is linear SS is not. Sadis have better str caps than enus have cha caps, also AB is a lvl 60 spell and SS a 70 lvl spell. Seeing what else enus can do IMO a bit lower damage as seen below is okay. Even though sadis can do some of the same things as enus but with cooldowns.

AB
6 Damage: 6~65 Damage: 65 4 1-7 1/45 1/100

SS
6 Damage: 9~58 Damage: 59 5 1-7 1/50 1/100

Bolded part is the greatest advantage between SS and AB. Epic/end game lvl enus can hit 650's to 800's with SS ch, sadis around the same, perhaps a bit more.

Well I expected to hear some folks, especially Iop's, disagree with this post - even when comparing three identical casts of Aggressive Brambles to THree casts of StrengthStorm at lvl 150+ doing on average about 300 - 400 more damage per turn for the Iop than the Sadida.

There are a lot of other discussions on the need to nerf Iop's or why Iop's are overpowered, that was not the purpose of my post. I only used the Iop StrengStorm spell as an example of the imbalance at higher levels with Sadida (but the same holds true comparing a Sadida to many of the classes).

I am simply looking to come up with some fairly simple adjustments to the Aggro Bramble spell to make the Sadida useful at higher levels. Would love to see better Bramble and Mani-Bramble, but again, the focus of this post was on Aggro Brambles.

Let's here some more of your comments.

-- Baxa

Sadida's arent really meant to be the primary damage dealers. I definitely like aggro brambles on my sadida, and use it a lot.

Getting it to 1/2 critical is super easy with the sadida class ring, which also gives a non-linear wild grasses, which is very nice. I tend to play in groups with at least one AP giver too, so I can do bramble+bramble+aggro, which does maybe 350-450 damage on average if agro doesnt crit and up to 650 if it does. Im certainly no Iop, but it isnt bad for its range. Im level 12x so i have a long ways to go, and 4 ap sure is a nice improvement once i get there.