1.29 Cras I've heard some people say ankama admitted to making the 1.29 cra overpowered in pvp and are nerfing them soon.. is this true or is it just another rumor? People keep comparing them with agi xels

I hope so cuz they are so overpowered!

Cras have been underpowering for so long and for once they are good. You seriously want to make them that weak again?

These cra update is barely new so don't exept to figure out their weakness that quick, take your time. Wait till someone figures a way to win.



-xdark-osamodax

This post has been edited by thisgameizfun: 11 Oct 2009, 00:04

I agree.. I made a cra because of the update and I love what they've changed. To the people that say the cra is overpowered, can you explain what is overpowered about it?

I have agility cra, and i think its really little overpowered

What i meant to say is that cras are overpowered and i hope they just get a little bit weaker cuz they rape mp and ap from distance ( a very loooooooong distance).

Read my post please, I said that they are new and it might take a while until someone find a good tactics against them. Just wait before you yell who/what is overpowering.



-xdark-osamodax

None of our agility spells were changed much. Plauging does more damage but only 2 cast per player. Absorptives damage is less random but less damage on a crit, 1/50 base crit hits, and a minimum of 5 range. Retreat is better than it was. Maybe Retreat could be OP at low levels? I wouldn't know. I don't see anything overpowered about it.

Yeah, Cras are better now. but people are complaining about getting beat by them cause they dont have a STG yet. i am level 122 str cra with a very nice set and im still getting killed by xelor/osa/fecas i think the classes are perfect the way they are now. i also have a level 200 xelor and i love it. if you think cras are overpowered then make one:P CaSpEr you friendly rosal cra

Lashing does earth damage but can be easily considered a spell for every type of build. I think it was buffed in 1v1. 1 cast per turn and rapes 3 always. Combined with retreat+atonement+dispersing makings cra a bit harder to reach. Absorptive does impressive non-crit damage as well as crit damage, I was able to reach nearly 600 damage per hit on my 193 cra who has 0 points in agi, in a pure agi set though. (buffed of course)

no sir the cras arnt overpowered at all. they were so weak compared to the new ones that the new ones seen very strong. and most ppls i guess are happy that cras are finally getting a chance to shine. and those who think cras are overpowered make one and see for urself.high lvl cras were good een before but their low lvl weaknesses hardly allowed much ppls to get to high lvls. ther are a new class now. take ur time to learn them then comment.

Take your time to learn some English, I had a hard time reading that. "Cras aren't overpowered, they're just stronger than the old ones, a lot stronger" Yuh huh, and Fecas aren't underpowered at all, just a lot more useless than before.

I have fought several Cras. First turn they rape my range, then they rape my MP. We don't exactly have a lot of options!

Iops would be SOME use against them, their spells are all close quarters anyway, with Jump to get in close, but Retreat Arrow or Dispersing Arrow, plus 4mp, the Iop has to use 5ap just to get close again. One Pressure. Yay. Meanwhile Cra just knocks you back again and takes a few AP while dealing a bit of damage, and repeats until Iop dies.

And don't even say Sram - That's my class, and I've never won. Invisibility doesn't help when you can only cast traps next to you. Bat's Eye doesn't need to be AoE and doesn't need such a short cooldown.

Osamodas doesn't help, insane range, just ignore the summons and kill the Osa. They do enough damage, gawd.

i don't think that lvl 120+ is much of a problem for any class, really. Everyone has all their spells, plenty of spell points to invest in them, reached their stat caps and has plenty of equipment to choose from. To fight Cras there, I'd equip myself some 6mp and +range gear, use my 2ap Double to annoy them, and run around casting Lethal traps. Unfortunately, I can't do ANY of that at lvl 63.

And this is where the money is - Higher levels can just solo a dungeon and soul the boss, train up a mount while they're at it and sell the drops to make money. Down at this level, the best thing is to use Strokens to get scrolls to either sell or invest in Wisdom to get to that high level stage faster, and while they're at it, getting some sweet exp.

And I don't believe in making another character just because that class is overpowered. That's just making the problem worse, I prefer to stick to my very powerful Sram, who is only powerful through expensive equipment and sheer intelligence and strategy on my behalf. As such I can usually easily beat the "invincible" Intel Sacriers without so much as a scratch. Except that one with 5mp. He owns me.

[/rant]

This post has been edited by Deadly-Bagel: 12 Oct 2009, 12:29

Im just saying that Intel Sacs tend to have 7MP and they are annoying as hell.

At what level? Bit difficult to get that and still have decent stats at lvl 60-90, which is where all the trouble is. Unless you're an Agi character. In which case you can easily have 7mp by lvl 90 and still have decent stats.

Just to clarify, when I made this post I wasn't saying cras are overpowered(whether that's true or not). I was only asking if they might be nerfed soon.

The only spell I think that could be a bit of an issue for other classes is Bat's Eye. I do find it very useful when I fight. I think it might be a bit more balanced if it was 1-6 or 1-5 range at all levels and not adjustable. This would make it more of a "take their range and try to get away while you can" spell instead of a "take their range, mp rape, and push them back to leave them helpless" spell.

Also, this might not be topic related, could someone explain to me the possible uses of tormenting arrow? I could understand the uses if it were maybe for a hybrid build, but it has a minimum range of 5 and is linear. Maybe using retreat arrow then tormenting, after they are further away, for more damage? In my opinion, it wouldn't be a spell you could use every turn and could only do nice damage with a hybrid build. This might be a good spell to get rid of if someone came up with something to replace it that might be useful for more than one build.

Any opinions?

Hmm, I don't see how people are saying bats eye is overpowered now. How long have Cras had it? Now it does water damage, but if the cra isn't chance the damage he will do with it won't be too hardcare.

As for Tormenting Arrow, it is one of my favorite spells now. With Bow Skill for + damages and Powerful Shooting with 250% damage, plus all of my base and boost Agility, It can do some devastating damage. Obviously you can see that I am an agility character, so I use Tormenting on enemies with air % and -fire% such as the Rat Tchets in The Black Rat Dungeon. With a combo of one Absorptive Arrow and two Tormenting I can still do sufficent damage on enemies who are resistant to me.

This post has been edited by puntang: 12 Oct 2009, 13:44

Done, 8MP Int. Sac, job done, never lost.

Just because one class that's clearly well above average in PvP can beat a class does not prove anything.

My iop is level 6x and has 9 ap, 7 mp, and 1.3k hp without vitality spell and any scrolls and has never lost. Does this mean every class is balanced at level 6x?

They should have atleast a 2 damage reduction on ALL their overpowered spells... I seriously cannot even hit a agility cra now.. and I am a sacrier

To be honest with you, agility cras haven't changed much. I think all they did was move spells nothing more and nothing less.

Just wait till you get to level 100 then you will hardly see any difference. Plus think of agility cras as your weakness, you can't beat

everyone and dominate.



-xdark-osamodax

Change Lashing arrow, thats the main thing. Give it a cooldown or make it a % chance to take the undodgeable 3 mp. Their damage is fine, most of the changes are wonderful, bat's eye could be looked at but i haven't seen tat used in action as much so i cant speak for it too much.

Hmmmm... Tormenting at level 6 is PRETTY POWERFULL :B... There's a 199 cra on rushu, I've seen him dealing 540dmg on a critical hit... And it's true .-. my friend was attacking their perc, his name is Pink-Floyd I think x)

I don't think cras are OP, they're use to be the weakest class and everyone would mock from them, but not anymore =B... Now you guys keep complaining when you got a class that used to be even worse: Srams.
How is the feeling of being useless? When we take your range away and keep beating you from distance is just the same you used to do with invis + traps

Yeah, here's the dilemna. Lashing at the moment, is overpowered in 1vs1 PvP. However, unless you have a team of 8 Cras, it isn't in GvG (well, at least I can win in prism fights with Cras on the other side) But, if you nerf Lashing, PvM takes a huge blow. So basically, nerfing Lashing at this point = making it sub-par in PvM.

Add another side to the spell. The current side against monster group targets, and make a toned down version in pvp fights. They already have a protocol as its basically what they do with punishments. Maybe the toned down version for pvp could be 50% Chance to cause the undodgeable mp loss. 100% chance on crit.

As for the GvG arguement, thats true... but ankama has given more benefits for solo combat than group combat causing a major shift into dueling for bounty quests. So GvG isn't as common as 1v1. Unfortunately.

Everyone have been saying that Cra's are "OP" .
Well I agree in a way. How ever only two spells are.
Those two spells are: "Bat's Eye"
Bat's Eye is OP because it reduces 6 range at all levels. I think is should be changed to reduce 3 range and have a smaller Aoe.
The second spell I think is OP: "Retreat Arrow"
This spell is only OP for one reason:
It pushes the person back way too much at lvl 1.
I think it should push a person back one square at lvl 1, Two squares at lvl 3 and Three squares at lvl 5.
I'm just throwing this out there.
If you think this is a good idea comment.
Bad Idea? Also comment.
Just please don't flame or you'll get burned by the mods.
-Faruz

Retreat is not OP, 1 Square pushback at level one would do absolutley no good and would force the Cra to level it, which would contradict part of the reason for the buff, which was to make all spells useful for Cras no matter the level. Bats Eye was -5 range at level 5 and yes if a Cra is going to PvP he would of had Bats Eye leveled even prior to 1.29.

This post has been edited by puntang: 15 Oct 2009, 04:38

Not to mention that Retreat Arrow has piss-poor range at level 1, and has unadjustable range

Hmm, this has become an interesting topic. Thank you all for the replies.

I think we should have more options to have group PvP. Any comments on this? I think one of the main problems is that we must organize them and we can't find people to PvP in groups together just for fun.

There would be absolutely no point in changing the push back at all. What level are the cras that you are fighting? Any cra that would use retreat arrow as a main spell would have it at lvl 5 by the time they are lvls 10-20. Also at lvl 1, retreat arrow only has an unadjustable range of 1-3. Retreat arrow is used to get your enemy away because most of the high damage spells have a minimum range of 5-8.

540 damage on a crit hit isn't that powerful for a lvl 199
Still wonder why people call Cras overpowered while other classes can dish out a LOT more damage.

Well, there are not that many classes who can deal 540 dmg on 5-8 boostable range for 3AP Yes its linear but with boosted range.

This post has been edited by karyuudan: 15 Oct 2009, 15:15

Bat's eye always did reduce range, only difference is life steal now
If you are a low level PvP'er please don't mess the game, level to 180+ if you want balanced fights.

Im playing with the cra and im really surprised of an amount of damage which is dealt by water spells. my bulid is agi but even after update it is not as powerful as int iops but especially - not as powerful as water cras. many people say, that the cra water spells are gonna be changed again. is that true? even if it , happens, the small problem appears. If someone has a water cra at the moment, he can feel powerful right now, but after update which can happen, the water bulid can be too weak. after that playing the water cra will have no sense. I think the players, who play the characters, that will be changed should get the ability, to reste the stats after update. many people can say now: "of course you can, just kill the dopples for doploons. then cahnge the statistics". then another problem appears. after last update i changed the bulid of my cra. i was earth cra, but after update, i used doploons to change my stats and become an agi cra. if another update will become, i wont be able to change my stats again, cause the reset of the stats by using doploons can be used only once, and i just did that. my friends, same as me, are not enough powerful to help me with the tynril dungeon. i hope the admins will think about the solution of cra's water spells, and options after each updates with class spells changes.

P.S Critical shoting (Cra spell) is working wrong i think.. lvl 5 should give 13CH..when i am casting it, the probability for getting a Ch is rising only by 8... It is not ok I think =S (or maybe I am wrong and calculation for CH has changed. Am I right?)

cra's are very overpowerd but still sacs can pwn them and iops too but not so much

Unfortunately Nate, there won't be much group pvp besides percs and the occasional prism(which are usually way unbalanced) until ankama provides more incentives to group pvp.

And eve if we as the players try to set up group pvp, ankama will continue to balance the game around solo pvp. Even if 90% of players cried out for more group pvp, ankama wouldn't know because they do not read much of anything we post or say.

Yes, I know. It's sad that Ankama doesn't focus more on group stuff. Hopefully the game will be better after they are all done focusing on 2.0.

Don't get your hopes up. There's still alot of classes to nerf...

You're probably doing it wrong...
My cra have 27ch and with +13 of the spell I can put my 1/40 spells to 1/2 :B

Mostly on Shika it's someone attacking a Prism and hoping people show up.



This

No I don't think he's doing it wrong. He must have alot of agility. The more agility you have the less effective +CH are. Instead of Critical Shooting giving me +13 to crits, it gives me around +6 due to my having around 800 agility.

This post has been edited by puntang: 16 Oct 2009, 21:36

and yes you can only change spells 1 time with dopploons, however you can always run otomai dungeons. to reset again.

can u only unlearn a spell one time with dopploons??? that sux...

Lots of replies for this topic anyway it's not cras are unbeatable they're just a bit overpowered from lvl 1-120( or a bit more)

Funny how all these topics contradict each other. If anyone believes that cras got severely nerfed by this update, they need to make one. Or at least take a look at the class set. Its become much more fun.

This post has been edited by Phatballerz: 18 Oct 2009, 08:49

as for me i am lvl 200 and have 9 mp on invisi. all i do is go running to them and whoop their ass with lethal fear lethal fear combo. if u r below 100 dont complain here about stronger or weaker classes. simply go and exp. when u r 100 then go for scrolls . i dont get the points of u ppls. srams are very weak till lvl 100. if u r agi then 70. get the lvls first then try pvping.and stop posting nonsense all around. u havent yet seen ur class speciality and u come around crying that other classes should be nerfed. and for ur info str cras get their best skill at lvl 60. and about money problems . anakama has introduced something called proffessions or it. learn one . get it to 100 and ull be making swimming pools of kamas.

yep yep ^^ the best i have dished out one a veryyyyyyy rare double crit on lethal was 1900 twice for a whoop ass 3800 lethal is realllllly lethal . p.s. i have +46 to crit and an unlucky eca buffed me with +50 on a roulette

I don't PvP so I'm looking at cras from a PvM perspective. I believe their dmg is much too high given the range on their spells. I'm watching a cra dish out Approximately 500 dmg a turn to multiple targets from across the map while simultaneously taking 4 ap from the same targets. As useful as that is I'd say it's definitely OP from a PvM perspective.

This post has been edited by Alyss-Sin: 18 Oct 2009, 15:44

Dudes they are WAYOVER POWEING.... what u say 40 lvl cha cra doing 350+ dmg -.- a 44 lvl cra killed me and im 65 agg xel -.- ... they got atack that takes 1 mp and gives them mp.... 2 of this and u go -2 mp and they +2 mp... total range manipulation... bats eye-hmmm u get 1 turn whit range -.- ...and amm... all arows that puch back... 2or 3+ idk how much were they... u can dodge lock... higher ap do the tactic-> push and steal mp,tahn move away and do 100+ dmg first hit and 300+ second whit poweful shoting.... EVEN IF THEY WERE weak as a gobball all the time that TOO MUCH -.-

ya give em some time... so some 40-50 lvl cras go hunting for 60-70 lvl other classes and geting ALOT of honor -.- CRAS ARE WAY OVER POWERD -.-

cra's are way too powerful and cheap i suggest that you just lower their powers just a bit so that every class can be equal and that everyone gets along and has fun playing dofus
thank you
-blackkatxiiixiiii

I have some questions for you:

-What cras are you talking about?
-Did you examine your self before posting?
-Did you try different tactics every time you fight them?

You guys should try doing this kind of stuff before posting.



-xdark-osamodax

lol,
level up before crying what classes are good and what classes are weak.

When will you noobs learn that below lvl120 - 150 classes cannot be compared? Obviously never.

I'm 141 atm and I'm saying cras dmg output is too high coupled with their range/ap/mp rape abilities at all levels from 170ish and lower. In PvM at least. I've fought a few in friendly challenges and wouldn't want to draw their names were I aligned. Their tactics now are to MP rape and run. As a panda obviously that destroys me. In PvM which is my forte I'd say as nice as it is to have a cra with their new abilities I think some of them need to be dropped down a peg or two it's just too much. I can see parties consisting of Cras and Sacriers completely solo'ing most dungeons now. Add an eni and make it almost all dungeons.

This post has been edited by Alyss-Sin: 19 Oct 2009, 01:04

What

This post has been edited by karyuudan: 19 Oct 2009, 10:50

To clarify once again for anyone who thinks this is a topic asking for a nerf, it isn't. Mainly I was asking everyone what they thought was overpowered about the Cra class as of 1.29, and if they thought there might be a nerf soon. Just trying to keep it on topic a bit and clear out the people complaining about others asking for nerfs. Also, we all know by now that the devs don't listen to the people asking for nerfs on the forum.




What types of cras are you seeing at those levels? I've been wondering what the most popular builds are among levels 150+.

I agree with xdark-osamodax.

Btw, who exactly do you think you are posting to? Ankama barely goes near this forum as far as I know.

This post has been edited by NateMosiman: 19 Oct 2009, 11:49

Intel and Chance are the big two, I've played with a few straggling strength cras but they don't really hold up.

May i ask what level you, because most of the overpowered complaints generally come from lower level players. Cras are really good at low level pvp now, but some builds are less effective 100+.

Cras got no new abilities except gravity with the 1.29 update.
MP rape, hit and run always were cras' strategy even before 1.27 Lashing buff and Paralyzing nerf.

The only things that changed are:
1) Viable from low levels chance build
2) More consistent and stable dmg
3) Higher buffs (with shorter duration and shorter cooldowns)

As for dungeons, cras always were one of the best survivors if built and played right. And no need for sacrier.

I'm not saying that cras are perfectly balanced now. But before the update they were considered as one of not needed in the dungeon classes, maybe now they'll be more welcomed.

The new water based explosive arrow?

I'm aware of how much cra's needed a buff but they went to excess with it. They need to be adjusted a bit more.

Slow Down Arrow has been there for who knows how long, not many just used it before.

They can be rather powerful at high levels as well, if played well. But in no way unbeatable.

There is no new water based explosive arrow.

If you are talking about Slow Down it was here for a long time. And it's linear (unless you wear a belt).
Bat's Eye has no linear requirement and has the same AoE as Explosive but it has 4 turns cooldown.

I agree that some adjustment could be done but not because of dmg. It's not that high, especially at epic levels.
The only real problem for other classes and only in 1vs1 PvP is Lashing Arrow. But just nerfing it won't solve the problem as it'll nerf PvM abilities of cras.

Cras were designed as ranged fighters, and they should've had advantage in range combat over melee fighters. Now cras have it and it's fine as this advantage is pretty good balanced with lowered damage in short distance (due to minimal range restrictions on the main damage spells).
The ability to stay at range was buffed a bit too much for PvP as it's now. Though, it's not overpowered in PvM. One cra still can't solo high level dungeons relying only on MP/range/AP drain. I can think of some dungeons that can be soloable now, but they will require really hax set with loads of risky and expensive overmagings and hax strategy on top of this. It's not what I usually call overpowered class.

Another question is CC damage. When cra is fully buffed it can deal higher damage than iop even with non-class weapon (assuming all other conditions are even). But unlike iops cras can't be buffed all the time due to cooldowns and short buff duration. So high CC damage is still somehow balanced.

While I was unaware slow down was linear or that it has been around. I still feel that given their huge range advantage the damage they deal is too high. I try to avoid dungeons with cras in the group now because it takes the challenge out of the fights. Unless of course I'm in a group at black rat and they want me to leech.

This post has been edited by Alyss-Sin: 19 Oct 2009, 20:42

Obviously the topic starter.



-xdark-osamodax

As I said earlier they can just nerf the pvp side of the spell.

"Add another side to the spell. The current side against monster group targets, and make a toned down version in pvp fights. They already have a protocol as its basically what they do with punishments. Maybe the toned down version for pvp could be 50% Chance to cause the undodgeable mp loss. 100% chance on crit."

Lichen said there would be no PvP and PvM versions of the spells. Sacriers are an exclusion as developers couldn't find so far the way to balance them. But it seems they are going to do it eventually.
I believe we should wait till all classes are redesigned. If I understood correctly what Lichen wrote in Zone 48 he was going to revise all classes to make them more reliable and less dependent on crits, i.e. exactly the same as they did with the cras. The only exclusion will be ecaflip class as it's based on gambling, but I won't be surprised if it is redone as well.



@Alyss-Sin
I do understand no challenge argument, but being a cra myself I can't agree with it, unless white and black rat are the highest level dungeons you do.
In fact pandas contribution in making dungeons easier is way higher than one of cras, especially support pandas. We will see how it'll turn out but something tells me that cras still will be rarer PvM alts than enus, enis, sacs and pandas.

Bat Eye (-6 Range) is really annoying in PvP, as well as the combination with Burning/Retreat Arrow and +5 range makes it impossible to win PVP at lower levels against a 4+Mp Cra. I think its a good update in terms of strategy, i just hope all the other classes improve as well.

For instance:
Iops Have so many damage buff skills, its pretty repetitive and some are not even necessary.
Ecas Claw of Cleangal isn't that great for a level 90 spell, Its basically a sword which can lower 1 Ap on a critical hit
1/50 crit rate, 1-1 range, damage and Ap use equivalent to a decent sword.
Srams Double Cast per interval is tremendously long, should be 10,9,8,7,6
Fecas,Enus, and Pandawas someway to improve them would be nice.

plz someone cras are really starting to pee me off , we need to nerf thm bad mainly pvp. god paralyzing arrow atonement arrow how do you expect us to win xD!!!

There are some stuff cra's can't do maybe use take that to your advantage. Here are the list of things they don't have (I think I got them right):

-Summon
-Teleport
-Unbewitch
-Shield Spells
-Turn invisible

Eh I hope this helped out a little. I can't exactly point out everything they are missing.




-xdark-osamodax

This post has been edited by thisgameizfun: 24 Oct 2009, 19:19

even if they dnt have those things they still own in pvp at low levels and its realllly annoying so i was asking for a nerf if you have herd of you kno of a nef plz tell me ty

Well, the general solution with problems encountered in low levels is this: Level up to 100. Also leveling up your writing skills wouldnt hurt either.

The solid fact is Ankama doesn't listen to whiners on the forums. Or anybody, for that matter. Heck the official bots topic hasn't received a single note of feedback since it was started, and it's full of suggestions to fix botting problems.

There is talk of a nerf, and it better happen quick >_> The range debuff is just too much. I was just in a group with a lvl 54 Cra, a bit newb to the game, in full wisdom gear, but still hitting 160 with Atonement Arrow. In full wisdom gear. For 4ap, geez, I hit that much with two tricky traps in full battle gear, and that's only assuming they walk into them =s

All you can really do is come on here, whine about your experiences to make you feel better and look for a nerf announcement.

While you're at it, everyone spam Support, not crying for a nerf, just explaining your experiences with them. And do it in a professional, neat manner.

if it has more mp than you it would be a problem otherwise its fine

lvl 100 farmer, alchemist and baker. Lvl 68 Miner. Lvl 65 Jeweller. Lvl 83 Jewelmagus. Working on Shoemaker, it's low so no point posting it, it'll have doubled before long. I'll use the runes from that to max Jewelmagus.

I could spend a day grinding a profession to make money. I might make a hundred thousand kamas an hour. Big whoop, it would take me five hours just to buy the hat I just bought. And that was a good deal. I have other means of making kamas, no, not buying them, less reliable means but it works.

And easy for you to say "just go and exp to lvl 100." I'm on Solar, so much fewer groups doing anything, so less groups accepting new players. I soloed for a year, I'm kind of over it, you know? I'll do Dopples but that's once a day. Don't get me wrong, I announce I'm looking for groups in Recruitment chat often, but most of the time I'm ignored. Most of the times I'm not ignored, I get hired by some nub.

And I would like something to do in the meantime, ya know?

Oh my Gawd! What did they do to Cra now.....Atonement Arrow had range of 8-10 yesterday and now is only 1-4 or something less. Nice job of messing up my investment in Cra.

Whooow....system must have reset as things are normal again for 1.29. Not that I dislike fair and considered changes, only unforseen or unannounced change.

Before I post I want to make clear that this is from the perspective of someone who plays a xelor, osa, sacrier, sram, sadida. I think ankama did overdo it just a touch. I mostly pvp on my sac and this past week has been the closest I have ever come to losing vs a cra. In fact my most recent fight I only won because the cra gave two flying swords +6 ra. LOL. But yeah the attack spells are fine, all you need is more wis to handle the mp rape. My only concern is retreat arrow, bat's eye, and the various buffs. Too much knockback, -6 range is hell for classes like srams, critical shooting is way too many crits, powerful shootting buff is a little much, distant shooting is not that bad but a little over the top. Cras deserve a buff but I think ankama is pushing it a little. The rank wings of cras is now much higher. No complaints here, but assuming that ankama nerfs based on win to loss ratio, I don't think the new cra will last long the way it is.

Edit: my iphone auto corrects words so I'm fixing some words it changed on me. Oh, and 50%+ of my friends list is usually cras now lmfao.

This post has been edited by Lunuil: 21 Oct 2009, 21:34

Bat's Eye used to drain the same 6 range as now.
Pre 1.29 update cras could boost their range by 11 (6 from Distant Shooting and 5 from Eagle's Eye).

Wisdom is useless against Lashing as it drains non-dodgeable 3 MP.

I chuckle a little when cras use bats eye. Its almost as if they're making it even more evident that they are THE range class and nobody else gets to be.

no one expect you to win. you dont have to stay at low lvls its no that hard get to lvl100

How many times can you cast tricky trap? Atonement has a 3 turn cool down, and a pretty restrictive minimum range. So you can do that damage every turn..... don't really see the comparison there.

Actually cra's do have a small heals spell (Bats Eye is a steals) and a larger somewhat self heal (Absorbtion arrow). They can also disperse themselves so that they can move themselves so they do have a transport spell. They just don't do heals as well as an Eni, or move themselves as well as other classes but they CAN do it.


Not saying Cra's need a nerf, as my opinion that they just got balanced (at higher levels), that if anything needed anything Lashing could use a tweak as guaranteed -3 mp for 3 ap is a bit much but nerfing them is not really necessary.

why ??? jst because ur teleport to the end of map and spam homing is not working on them thats why? or jst because u lost to them??? meet me at solar and ill defeat u with every class. then ull get a reason to get them all nerfed

Why does everybody say "your a noob, just level to 100"? What does level 100 have to do with anything? Yes we now have most of our spells, but are no where near fully developed as a class. No, leveling to 100 does not solve your problem. A few of the characters I pvp with are in that 90-120 range, and i can almost guarantee the people who say it balances out at level 100, aren't level 100 themselves. *Puts up flame shield*

I think the idea is that at level 100 you have all spells (like you said) for all classes. So even if maybe one class can get in "top form" before level 100, some other classes need that 100th spell to "compete properly".

Actually, summoning a dopple is quite useful But I think what you mean is that as you lvl up, your vit, stats, and overall power goes up. You can also wear more things, so I think this is what you guys mean... I think ._.

The dopple is lv 200.


That being said, Lunuil, actually classes don't start really balancing until 150ish+ but at 100 they are vastly more balanced then at say...60 simply because you have access to all spells (with exception of dopple) for maximum combo's. That is the point, lv to 100 and there is a vast difference in pvp then at lv 60.

Leveling to 100 is a small solution. You completely remove the variable of not having as many base spells as the opponent. Osas for example gain a temporary weakness in the level range before major summon spells. Before that bracket, you see many vit osas. After that, they disappear only to reappear after learning crackler and wyrmling.

This post has been edited by Phatballerz: 23 Oct 2009, 05:13

also gear and lvl corrolate. Example.

a lvl 85 intel osa and a lvl 85 str sadi fight.

The sadida has access to a full terrdala set meaning 8 AP, 4 MP, and high str and vitality bonuses

The Osa on the other hand does not have access to certain gear like Feudala (except belt) until the 90's making it harder and more expensive to gear themselves where they would have 8 AP, 4 MP, high intel and vitality.

so at 100-150, most builds are given access to some of their end gear, meaning less of a gap in between gear accessibility where lvl and build both play a factor.

yeah but you had to use points on bat's eye , ence being ok.

can't they just put -6 range at lvl 5 but -2 range on lvl 1 ? you said i'ts the same so...

im talkin about the chance ones
thanks

Lol, learn to play...

Level up to 100 and you will find balance.



-xdark-osamodax

Please explain.

This post has been edited by GoldfishGod: 23 Oct 2009, 22:09

I've already explained it many times and if I have to do it again then again I must. Basically the final spell on most of every class gets is what helps them build the best tactics (or strategy).



-xdark-osamodax

Original poster should also learn when apostrophes are appropriate

I don't see complete balance in any level of PvP. Some amount of balance is present at all levels, some more than others. Leveling to 100 won't do much, seriously, I bet a well-built sram will easily kill most classes.