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class spells
102
Herahx (Echo)
Team Tofu
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2008-10-18
posté June 19, 2017, 10:14:14 | #1
class spells Maybe it's an idea to look at the balance of spells at level 5. Iops are supposed to be hitters, while the eniripsa spell they get at 48, has higher base dmg than any iop spell (for example). Also the base damage on huppermagespells is higher than every other class spell except for iops wrath (note, huppers have a LOT of buffs+elemental drain)... The new sac doesnt seem to have ANY downsides on their punishment, like the old sac used to give himself erosion with punishments.

This is not some rant, but the balance, especially at lower levels in pvp, seem to beso off compared to old patches.


Subscriber Quetsnakiatl Cruncher
* * Member Since 2013-11-22
posté June 19, 2017, 11:21:17 | #2
The fact is that a lot of people complaints about not being able to complete some game content using every possible class, quest combats included.
Then when Ankama tries to give every class the means to overcome those difficulties, they start to complaint that there's no diversity anymore.

People should make up their mind.. Anyways, I hope Ankama finds a way to make quest fights and shared content accessible for anyone while keeping the class diversity of 1.29, which people still loves and craves for. That's no easy task, rest assured, but it can be done. I.E. hard quest fights can be ALL in the style of the Dark Vlad fight, where everybody has the same set of skills/stats in order to complete, while dungeons can be a special thing, forcing you to party up with other people, though not forcing the same class combinations every time.


102
Herahx (Echo)
Team Tofu
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2008-10-18
posté June 19, 2017, 15:31:47 | #3
thats why you woud require parties instead of soloing all game. the scalings are REALLY messed up rn, since even support classes need to be able to solo stuff apparently.. seems legit


200
Pagonis (Echo)
Pagonys
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2015-07-28
posté June 19, 2017, 17:00:11 | #4
Or change those fight to accommodate a duo possibility and make it slightly more difficult than it is now for solo. Thus allowing support character to team up with a hard hitting ones for quests like this.


102
Herahx (Echo)
Team Tofu
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2008-10-18
posté June 19, 2017, 17:49:28 | #5
exactly.. i get so tired of the overplayed pvp chars being played because ankama screwed over the scalings on them... look at the eni base dmg, it would almost be legit to give iop an heal now. and instead of looking into the issues that are there, ankama decides to give cra erosion and another pushback, while their kit already has something for EVERY situation


This post has been edited by je-moede - June 24, 2017, 12:31:58.
Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté June 19, 2017, 19:01:08 | #6
Let's see...enis get 29~31 fire damage, while iops get 16+7~24+9 with SoJ and 16~20x2 with concentration, so...no, enis don't outdamage iops at lvl 48, especially taking damage buffs in account. As for huppermages, they're getting nerfed literally tomorrow.

The scaling is stupid, but mostly because about 80% of the damage spells barely change unless they go from 5 to 6. Also, keep in mind that they will change the spell system, and spell points will no longer exist. It's taking it's sweet time, but will happen.


102
Herahx (Echo)
Team Tofu
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2008-10-18
posté June 19, 2017, 19:07:11 | #7
it's not only eni, the balance seems gone by an awful lot.. supports become hitters, hitters become... well... thrash. And instead of reading and doing something about it, ankama decides that cra apparently needs another pushback, AND erosion, because their kit doesnt cover everything yet.


Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2016-11-09
posté June 20, 2017, 10:59:25 | #8
I've actually seen an int iop with a healing bow in kolo. It worked surprising well. Maybe I should make a second account with a iop to buff and heal my osa in pvm.


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2010-07-27
posté June 20, 2017, 12:08:47 | #9

Quote (NARCISSECR @ 20 June 2017 10:59) *
I've actually seen an int iop with a healing bow in kolo. It worked surprising well. Maybe I should make a second account with a iop to buff and heal my osa in pvm.

Hahaha!

Agree with some comments, but only partially.

New Eni isn't Overpowered and Iop is still sweet as it is. While Cra seems much more powerful now compared to how it used to be, the changes coming for cra spells are a good thing.

I have played a chance cra since forever and with the changes to the cra, I actually don't play it anymore. If I want to be cra, I would have to change elements. Or at least add a second element. I liked the cha build that I had but now its obsolete and limited. I might rebuild it [the cra] one day, but for now I have just made a new class (Ouginak) and started again from level 1.

Go back some years and the classes did have good balance, but people still claimed that certain classes were broken and OP. That was prior to masq and rogue and a bunch of other new content. New content changed the balance system, but the game itself got better. Amakna is always re-evaluating the classes, but not all changes will be liked and people will always think that some classes are OP and broken based on how powerful they can become at the end-game.

I used to believe characters were balanced, it depended on the class vs class and build vs build choices.

Example; Old Style characters:

Wis Cha Cra vs Str Iop = Cha cra win. Iop says: "Cras are so OP broken. How am I supposed to beat that?"

Wis Cha Cra vs Wis Int Iop = Iop wins. Cra says: "Nice build." *cries*


The problem was, people wanted 'their build' to be able to fight against 'all builds'. That was never going to happen. And it still won't happen. Even with all the changes that practically forces players to build a specific way to get the most out of their character, ie: Int/Str Iop & Int/Agi Cra—it still won't happen. When all the classes are aimed at being built a specific way, the diversity of the classes will change and Amakna won't let that happen. The classes will continued to be modified until an acceptable balance is achieved once again.

In my opinion, prior to the update coming today (and up for revision later)

Good classes:
> Iop, Eni, Cra, Ouginak, Rogue, Sram, Elio, Sacrier, Panda,

Relatively good/decent classes:
> Feca, Hupper, Sadida, Ecaflip, Enutrof

Meh! Classes:
> Osa (good in Kolo and depends on skill of player, but mostly the class is messed up)

Bad Classes
> Masq, Fogger, Xelor


In summary: Eni isn't OP and broken, nor is Cra [even though I abandoned the Cra]. All those I listed as 'Good classes' are those I think that are well balanced (although tweaks possibly/probably needed here and there, hence many changes coming out today)


This post has been edited by Juledin - June 24, 2017, 12:31:58.
102
Herahx (Echo)
Team Tofu
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2008-10-18
posté June 20, 2017, 12:51:46 | #10
Broken is a big word, and a class isas good as it's player. but withing all honesty, look over some base dmg of spells and you see what i mean. back in the day you had lots of different builds, doing different things and now all builds are practically the same. Support classes dealing a shit-ton of dmg all of a sudden because apparently every class has to be able to solo content. (or so it seems). And within all honesty, if i compare the days in 1.29, the classes were more different... i mean, except spell names and some very small differences... what's the difference between an eca and an iop in the current state? both got dmg buffs, both got a vit buff, both deal massive dmg in close range. When i came back i gave up my beloved eca because it didnt feel like a gambler anymore.

i like what they did to the xelor class, sacrier also seems good, maybe needs a final bit of polishing at some points, but Feca doesnt even feel like feca anymore.. want shields? take a masq for example. they just don't seem to fit in as nicely as they once did.

Also, most of the non-revamp classes, all pretty much feel like they do the same (see iop and eca stated above).


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2010-07-27
posté June 20, 2017, 14:15:58 | #11
The 'Good Classes' I mentioned are based on my view of their balance and ability. In other words, solo-ability and ability in combat against other classes of a similar level (pvp).

###

I don't play this game with multiple accounts. 2 at most but that's rare. I play solo. I have played every class as a solo player, on Epic and normal servers alike. I have also partied (obviously) but mostly I play a single character and travel alone. Doing quests or dungeons takes up most of my playing time.

So:

If a 120 Eca can beat it [...whatever IT is] then 120 of any class should also be able to beat it. That's how I see it. At the same time, 120 Eni should be able to be built in such a way that it puts up a fight against an equal level Iop in 1v1 fight.

Eca has cat for heals, Iop has jump, Eca has +mp, Iop has Duel ... the classes are different. Able to hit the same, defend equally, contest with each other in a myriad of ways and put out similar damage?

Good!

Iop still hits harder, which is what the class is known for... but not to the point that all other classes bow down and die as soon as the fight goes toe-to-toe.


EDIT:

I agree that some of the changes of Feca totally changed the class. The shield-ability of the class is lackluster these days but the glyphs and damage make up for it in my opinion, which is why it's still 'relatively good' in my opinion.


This post has been edited by Juledin - June 24, 2017, 12:31:58.
Subscriber Minotoror Tamer
* * * Member Since 2011-10-26
posté June 21, 2017, 18:02:56 | #12
Feca was ruined. Not power wise, but thematically. Class was my favorite for years, 2015 update trashed everything I found fun about it. Can't even deal with playing it anymore. Sometimes I try to, but I just get angry again when I see garbage like the class spell being a damage buff.


This post has been edited by justapie - June 24, 2017, 12:31:58.
102
Herahx (Echo)
Team Tofu
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2008-10-18
posté June 21, 2017, 21:36:45 | #13

Quote (justapie @ 21 June 2017 18:02) *
Feca was ruined. Not power wise, but thematically. Class was my favorite for years, 2015 update trashed everything I found fun about it. Can't even deal with playing it anymore. Sometimes I try to, but I just get angry again when I see garbage like the class spell being a damage buff.

I think that was done so the huppermage class could get a resist buff.. like the class isn't bad enough as it is :x