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Dofus Market
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 01:48:14 | #1
Dofus Market Been suggested time and time again I am sure, but it's a valid idea so lets bring it back to Ankama's attention. They have markets for everything else but the dofus.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 01:49:43.
Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 01:49:29 | #2
I totally suggested this in guild chat


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 01:50:07 | #3

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 01:49) *
I totally suggested this in guild chat
 


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 01:55:41 | #4
Are you willing to take the risk of putting a tax of 1mk+ when your dofus never get sold after 2 weeks?

Turq dofus 15mk with a tax of 1mk? Which nobody would buy...




The good thing is that people will now put high priced dofus at lowered price so that they actually get sold.
Example: Turq dofus 11 crit for 1mk.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 01:59:06 | #5

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 01:55) *
Are you willing to take the risk of putting a tax of 1mk+ when your dofus never get sold after 2 weeks?

Turq dofus 15mk with a tax of 1mk? Which nobody would buy...




The good thing is that people will now put high priced dofus at lowered price so that they actually get sold.
Example: Turq dofus 11 crit for 1mk.
Yes I will take a 1mk penalty for it not selling because dofuses usually sell really fast as long as you are not price gouging. I rarely have a Turq or Crimson on sale longer than 48 hours. I am tired of having to remember to use merchant mode tho, an actual dofus market would make life so much easier.


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 02:12:03 | #6
Again I say, if you don't want to use the update, don't. It won't hurt you not to anymore than it hurts you not to use the current markets, maybe less. People who dont want to pay the tax can still sell the items like they do now. The trade channel is still active. I can't see this be a server-ending exploitable update. There are markets for all other equips so why not dofus. Don't you pay a tax in merchant mode as well?


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 02:38:10 | #7

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 02:12) *
Again I say, if you don't want to use the update, don't. It won't hurt you not to anymore than it hurts you not to use the current markets, maybe less. People who dont want to pay the tax can still sell the items like they do now. The trade channel is still active. I can't see this be a server-ending exploitable update. There are markets for all other equips so why not dofus. Don't you pay a tax in merchant mode as well?
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 02:45:11 | #8

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 02:12) *
Again I say, if you don't want to use the update, don't. It won't hurt you not to anymore than it hurts you not to use the current markets, maybe less. People who dont want to pay the tax can still sell the items like they do now. The trade channel is still active. I can't see this be a server-ending exploitable update. There are markets for all other equips so why not dofus. Don't you pay a tax in merchant mode as well?
Exactly... What is the point of wasting the dev't team's time if there is already a way to sell dofus (merchant and trade channel).

And like I said... a dofus market could be good, since prices are bound to drop due to price undercutting... but everytime you undercut price, you are bound to lose millions in wasted taxes.... Making merchant and trade selling more viable....

There are markets for all other equips, but none as expensive as 50-100mk+ dofuses.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 02:49:23 | #9

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:45) *

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 02:12) *
Again I say, if you don't want to use the update, don't. It won't hurt you not to anymore than it hurts you not to use the current markets, maybe less. People who dont want to pay the tax can still sell the items like they do now. The trade channel is still active. I can't see this be a server-ending exploitable update. There are markets for all other equips so why not dofus. Don't you pay a tax in merchant mode as well?
Exactly... What is the point of wasting the dev't team's time if there is already a way to sell dofus (merchant and trade channel).

And like I said... a dofus market could be good, since prices are bound to drop due to price undercutting... but everytime you undercut price, you are bound to lose millions in wasted taxes.... Making merchant and trade selling more viable....

There are markets for all other equips, but none as expensive as 50-100mk+ dofuses.
Wrong, you can purchase ap maged gear for 80 to 100mk on the markets on Solar at least.


Subscriber Legendary Crackler Crusher
* * * Member Since 2008-09-14
posté April 23, 2012, 02:49:34 | #10

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 01:55) *
Are you willing to take the risk of putting a tax of 1mk+ when your dofus never get sold after 2 weeks?

Turq dofus 15mk with a tax of 1mk? Which nobody would buy...



The good thing is that people will now put high priced dofus at lowered price so that they actually get sold.
Example: Turq dofus 11 crit for 1mk.

Since when does a 15mk item have a 1mk tax?
Tax has increased to 2% I believe, but that still means 300kk of tax for a 15mk dofus.

The suggestion makes the markets for dofuses more competitive and easier to find. This may be the problem as they are suppose to be difficult to find, but I am not against this. This will save sellers the pain of spamming the chats all day. Problem with merchant mode is that there are fewer people checking your shops, and there is no guarantee that they can find your shop once they saved enough to buy it.

Edit: What's the point of having a market for any equips if there are already other ways to sell them? May as well scrap that.


This post has been edited by SniperViper - April 23, 2012, 02:51:01.
145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
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posté April 23, 2012, 02:55:49 | #11

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:38) *
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.
Correct, but you only have to pay .01% tax compared to 2% tax on market.

If you sell a 100mk dofus in merchant you only pay 10kk x 14 days = 140kk
If you sell a 100mk dofus in market you pay 2mk


This post has been edited by Gunnerwolfang - April 23, 2012, 02:57:00.
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 02:56:58 | #12

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:55) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:38) *
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.
Correct, but you only have to pay .01% tax compared to 20% tax on market.

If you sell a 100mk dofus in merchant you only pay 10kk x 14 days = 140kk
If you sell a 100mk dofus in market you pay 20mk
2% tax not 20%


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 02:57:52 | #13

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:56) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:55) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:38) *
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.
Correct, but you only have to pay .01% tax compared to 20% tax on market.

If you sell a 100mk dofus in merchant you only pay 10kk x 14 days = 140kk
If you sell a 100mk dofus in market you pay 20mk
2% tax not 20%
edited above... still 140kk is better than 2mk.


This post has been edited by Gunnerwolfang - April 23, 2012, 02:58:13.
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 03:00:08 | #14

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:57) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:56) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:55) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:38) *
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.
Correct, but you only have to pay .01% tax compared to 20% tax on market.

If you sell a 100mk dofus in merchant you only pay 10kk x 14 days = 140kk
If you sell a 100mk dofus in market you pay 20mk
2% tax not 20%
edited above... still 140kk is better than 2mk.
But on Solar the good merch spots are usually taken, you have to resort to underhanded tactics like hogging a spot with an alt selling piwi feathers for 500kk, or you gotta merch out in the boonies. The markets are much more trafficked, personally I hate having to check 500 merchants to see if I can find a good deal.


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 03:03:11 | #15

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 03:00) *
But on Solar the good merch spots are usually taken, you have to resort to underhanded tactics like hogging a spot with an alt selling piwi feathers for 500kk, or you gotta merch out in the boonies. The markets are much more trafficked, personally I hate having to check 500 merchants to see if I can find a good deal.
True.. that is all part of the strategy.... but right now, the 2 amakna merchant square are usually not full (there are less than 10 on the 2nd merchant square 2 map above the iop temple)... and even if they were, there are a few maps around them that are not yet taken.


This post has been edited by Gunnerwolfang - April 23, 2012, 03:06:56.
Subscriber Legendary Crackler Crusher
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posté April 23, 2012, 03:06:57 | #16

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:57) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:56) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:55) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:38) *
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.
Correct, but you only have to pay .01% tax compared to 20% tax on market.

If you sell a 100mk dofus in merchant you only pay 10kk x 14 days = 140kk
If you sell a 100mk dofus in market you pay 20mk
2% tax not 20%
edited above... still 140kk is better than 2mk.

You are assuming that the person doesn't log on more than once a day and doesn't play at all. You pay a small fee each time you log off (or if you choose not to switch to merchant mode, it won't cover the entire day like putting it in the market would).

There are also other benefits of putting something in the market. It is easier to find, and always in the same place, you don't have to fight for a spot on the most popular maps... without these benefits there wouldn't be any need for markets at all. The debate here is why dofuses should be excluded.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 03:08:52 | #17

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 03:03) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 03:00) *
But on Solar the good merch spots are usually taken, you have to resort to underhanded tactics like hogging a spot with an alt selling piwi feathers for 500kk, or you gotta merch out in the boonies. The markets are much more trafficked, personally I hate having to check 500 merchants to see if I can find a good deal.
True.. that is all part of the strategy.... but right now, the 2 amakna merchant square are usually not full (there are less than 10 on the 2nd merchant 2 square above the iop temple)... and even if they were, there are a few maps around them that are not yet taken.
I see on the Mod thread that they kick people for engaging in that practice, it may not be illegal, but it sure is unethical. If I see people doing that, I am much less likely to go out of my way to help you. A dofus market would make things much simpler and eliminate the unethical drama that surrounds the merchandising practices.

@sniper we want to include them not exclude them.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 03:10:50.
145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 03:12:39 | #18

Quote (SniperViper @ 23 April 2012 03:06) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:57) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:56) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:55) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 02:38) *
Yes you pay a percentage of how much you are selling.
Correct, but you only have to pay .01% tax compared to 20% tax on market.

If you sell a 100mk dofus in merchant you only pay 10kk x 14 days = 140kk
If you sell a 100mk dofus in market you pay 20mk
2% tax not 20%
edited above... still 140kk is better than 2mk.

You are assuming that the person doesn't log on more than once a day and doesn't play at all. You pay a small fee each time you log off (or if you choose not to switch to merchant mode, it won't cover the entire day like putting it in the market would).

There are also other benefits of putting something in the market. It is easier to find, and always in the same place, you don't have to fight for a spot on the most popular maps... without these benefits there wouldn't be any need for markets at all. The debate here is why dofuses should be excluded.
You are assuming that a person who plays cannot use the trade chat to sell.

My argument is that merchant and trade chat is way better than a 2% tax on items that do not usually get sold for months of a time.... When was the last time you ever sold a 100mk item? Can you consistently sell such an expensively priced commodities? If we are talking about the cheap cawwots and kaliptus dofus then my argument is irrelevant... but rare dofuses are just too expensive and too risky to sell on a 2 week 2% tax market.


This post has been edited by Gunnerwolfang - April 23, 2012, 03:18:36.
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 03:20:37 | #19
Well Gunner I sold an ap maged Head Band earlier this week for 85mk, and like I said before I almost always sell any dofuses I am trying to sell within 48 hours, and I do it by keeping my prices reasonable and the result being that I have a reputation on Solar for having good prices and I get a lot of my business now from people who buy from me telling other people about my good service and competitive pricing. I do not ever use merchant mode, I shudder to think of the horror of trying to keep one of those organized, and if I remember correctly if you are not a higher level PvPer, the size of your merchant is rather limited.

I think merchant mode needs to just be removed and people should simply use the markets.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 03:23:58.
145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 03:26:50 | #20

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 03:20) *
Well Gunner I sold an ap maged Head Band earlier this week for 85mk, and like I said before I almost always sell any dofuses I am trying to sell within 48 hours, and I do it by keeping my prices reasonable and the result being that I have a reputation on Solar for having good prices and I get a lot of my business now from people who buy from me telling other people about my good service and competitive pricing. I do not ever use merchant mode, I shudder to think of the horror of trying to keep one of those organized, and if I remember correctly if you are not a higher level PvPer, the size of your merchant is rather limited.
See, you sell dofuses without paying the 2% tax. Can you imagine the kama drains that a dofus market do to the in-game economy? Billions of kamas will be lost due to price undercutting and unsold items...

If you can sell expensive dofus without resorting to 2%market tax, then it would be better for you in the long run.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 03:31:07 | #21

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 03:26) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 03:20) *
Well Gunner I sold an ap maged Head Band earlier this week for 85mk, and like I said before I almost always sell any dofuses I am trying to sell within 48 hours, and I do it by keeping my prices reasonable and the result being that I have a reputation on Solar for having good prices and I get a lot of my business now from people who buy from me telling other people about my good service and competitive pricing. I do not ever use merchant mode, I shudder to think of the horror of trying to keep one of those organized, and if I remember correctly if you are not a higher level PvPer, the size of your merchant is rather limited.
See, you sell dofuses without paying the 2% tax. Can you imagine the kama drains that a dofus market do to the in-game economy? Billions of kamas will be lost due to price undercutting and unsold items...

If you can sell expensive dofus without resorting to 2%market tax, then it would be better for you in the long run.
I didn't earn my reputation overnight, it has taken me years of hard work and using the markets to get where I am. For every million I lose to market fees I make at least ten or fifteen. And it may take ten or fifteen times as long to sell things out of a merchant mode, most people I know go to the markets when they want to buy something, they don't want to trawl thru 500 merchants around the zaaps.

Maybe we can find something in the middle that suits both of us, perhaps additional markets around the 2, 0 zaaps to remove the need for merchants?


Subscriber Legendary Crackler Crusher
* * * Member Since 2008-09-14
posté April 23, 2012, 03:51:01 | #22
Well.. I was assuming that the person selling doesn't want to waste his time spamming up the chats against other chat spammers.. which is one of the reason why we should have a market.

I also don't think that dofuses should take that long to sell. If you are putting something in the market, it is your responsibility to calculate the odds of selling it within the two weeks for a given price (your responsibility to take into account the competition as well). The quicker the better actually, as that money could be invested in other things. It isn't any different than any other market other than at higher stakes.

I'm all for removing merchant modes actually. Most of what I do on dofus is marketing and profs, and I almost never look at the merchants because of how many shops used as spot holders, how difficult it is to find something you are looking for, and that you cannot see the average price of what that item is worth.

And.. debating why dofuses should be included and excluded are basically the same thing. We are looking at both sides.


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 03:54:00 | #23
Maybe if there is a tax cap of about 250kk. Right now, making a dofus market will only cause unnecessary kama drain due to price undercutting. atleast with a tax cap, the kama drain can be minimized.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 04:14:16 | #24

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 03:54) *
Maybe if there is a tax cap of about 250kk. Right now, making a dofus market will only cause unnecessary kama drain due to price undercutting. atleast with a tax cap, the kama drain can be minimized.
Waste a few hundred kk or waste a few hours every few days checking merchants, easy choice for me.  


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 04:39:30 | #25

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 04:14) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 03:54) *
Maybe if there is a tax cap of about 250kk. Right now, making a dofus market will only cause unnecessary kama drain due to price undercutting. atleast with a tax cap, the kama drain can be minimized.
Waste a few hundred kk or waste a few hours every few days checking merchants, easy choice for me.
We are not talking about a few hundred thousand here... This is undercutting that cost hundred of millions.... Personally, I only check the market when I do not see what I want in merchant square, simply because merchants sell 20-50% cheaper than market prices (on most of the case).


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 04:46:30 | #26

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 04:39) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 04:14) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 03:54) *
Maybe if there is a tax cap of about 250kk. Right now, making a dofus market will only cause unnecessary kama drain due to price undercutting. atleast with a tax cap, the kama drain can be minimized.
Waste a few hundred kk or waste a few hours every few days checking merchants, easy choice for me.
We are not talking about a few hundred thousand here... This is undercutting that cost hundred of millions.... Personally, I only check the market when I do not see what I want in merchant square, simply because merchants sell 20-50% cheaper than market prices (on most of the case).
That is you, from the people I have spoken with, this puts you squarely in the minority of players. If you have the time to do that everyday, then I commend you. Many people do not however, hence the reasoning for a market for dofuses.


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 04:53:54 | #27

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:45) *

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 02:12) *
Again I say, if you don't want to use the update, don't. It won't hurt you not to anymore than it hurts you not to use the current markets, maybe less. People who dont want to pay the tax can still sell the items like they do now. The trade channel is still active. I can't see this be a server-ending exploitable update. There are markets for all other equips so why not dofus. Don't you pay a tax in merchant mode as well?
Exactly... What is the point of wasting the dev't team's time if there is already a way to sell dofus (merchant and trade channel).

And like I said... a dofus market could be good, since prices are bound to drop due to price undercutting... but everytime you undercut price, you are bound to lose millions in wasted taxes.... Making merchant and trade selling more viable....

There are markets for all other equips, but none as expensive as 50-100mk+ dofuses.
Using your argument it was pointless for the devs to create the current market system. So those are only good for price undercutting?


145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 08:05:35 | #28

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 04:53) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:45) *
Exactly... What is the point of wasting the dev't team's time if there is already a way to sell dofus (merchant and trade channel).

And like I said... a dofus market could be good, since prices are bound to drop due to price undercutting... but everytime you undercut price, you are bound to lose millions in wasted taxes.... Making merchant and trade selling more viable....

There are markets for all other equips, but none as expensive as 50-100mk+ dofuses.
Using your argument it was pointless for the devs to create the current market system. So those are only good for price undercutting?
A. The current market is already there. This is a suggestion about adding a new dofus market... Your reasoning do not make sense. There must be a reason why there is no dofus market ever since the start of dofus, and clearly after all these years and after all the request to add it, there is still none.

B. The current market items do not charge millions in tax, there are a few cases of rare items that can be sold for millions (one example given by Phil on his rare AP maged headband) but those items do not have much competitions so it is as good as sold on most cases... But can you imagine trying to sell expensive dofus and be undercut every minute by desperate sellers.... Billions will be lost in the process of undercutting each other.... Do you really think billions will be lost in the current market in the undercutting process?


Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 04:46) *
That is you, from the people I have spoken with, this puts you squarely in the minority of players. If you have the time to do that everyday, then I commend you. Many people do not however, hence the reasoning for a market for dofuses.
Well, it depends on whose perspective... Remember, you are an MCer who tend to run a high level guild with 50+ members run by only 3-5 people at any given time... Heck, I imagine your guildchat to be too silent because your 3 online MCer member would be too busy to chat.

SA like me tends to have more time running around and look at merchants for discounts... We have more time than a typically busy MCer.

Last I checked, Ankama said that there are less MCers than there are SA of 1-2 accounts... So MCers are actually the minority in numbers according to the official tally.


This post has been edited by Gunnerwolfang - April 23, 2012, 08:27:13.
23
Drelas (Rosal)
Alts Inc
Member of the Zenith Tynril Decompiler
* * * * * Member Since 2008-02-29
posté April 23, 2012, 09:50:42 | #29
I think that the idea of dofus market is good. There are many cheap dofuses (PP, wisdom, for example) and it would be so much easier to sell and buy them.

As for the market fees, I believe that implementation of dofus market does not necessarily lead to elimination of merchant mode. So those who don't want to pay 2 mk fee or are afraid of price undercutting may continue to use trade channel and merchant mode.


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 16:31:24 | #30

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 08:05) *

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 04:53) *

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 23 April 2012 02:45) *
Exactly... What is the point of wasting the dev't team's time if there is already a way to sell dofus (merchant and trade channel).

And like I said... a dofus market could be good, since prices are bound to drop due to price undercutting... but everytime you undercut price, you are bound to lose millions in wasted taxes.... Making merchant and trade selling more viable....

There are markets for all other equips, but none as expensive as 50-100mk+ dofuses.
Using your argument it was pointless for the devs to create the current market system. So those are only good for price undercutting?
A. The current market is already there. This is a suggestion about adding a new dofus market... Your reasoning do not make sense. There must be a reason why there is no dofus market ever since the start of dofus, and clearly after all these years and after all the request to add it, there is still none.

B. The current market items do not charge millions in tax, there are a few cases of rare items that can be sold for millions (one example given by Phil on his rare AP maged headband) but those items do not have much competitions so it is as good as sold on most cases... But can you imagine trying to sell expensive dofus and be undercut every minute by desperate sellers.... Billions will be lost in the process of undercutting each other.... Do you really think billions will be lost in the current market in the undercutting process?
A. I said that using your argument it WAS pointless for them to make the old market systems. I was using an example from the past when someone thought "I think a market would be a good idea" so the devs made it, and it turned out well. As far as I can tell that makes sense. Your argument here makes little sense. Your argument against instituting a dofus market is that there isn't one already? So anything that has been suggested before when the devs thought "eh, it doesn't seem that important right now" is a bad idea?

B. The current market systems can and does charge millions in tax (as in the examples mentioned above). If players want to avoid the tax, they sell elsewhere. If they don't mind the tax, they use the market. Some people prefer the market so they can sell while playing and not have to remember merchant mode.What makes you think there will be so much competition in selling turqs or other rare dofus on the market? According to your own logic, hardly anyone will want to sell on the market because of the tax so there won't be "undercutting every minute by desperate sellers." That's a pretty big hyperbole no matter what you're selling. Sure, there will be people who sell for less than others. Those people will sacrifice kamas. Those people can still sell for less by the current system in trade chat or merchant mode. Also, yes, I think that by the current market system billions are lost due to undercutting of all items across all markets. However, people only undercut to sell faster. This would allow them to sell even faster than the current system with the option of sacrificing kamas to increase the speed.

I don't understand something about your whole beef with this. You said that with the current system markets are always more expensive than merchants so you only check the markets if what you want isn't in merchants. I believe this is true. However, you go on to say that this will make people sacrifice kamas because of market undercutting. Other than the tax, how is this sacrificing kamas if the market is, as you say, more expensive than merchants. A tax cap seems like it could solve all your problems.
Also, as mentioned above, this market isn't just for turqs, crimson, ochre, and vulbis. With the current system it can be pretty annoying to sell 30wis cawwot, kaliptus dofus, or low hp emeralds because either nobody wants to buy or the pricing is too loosely defined. A market would basically make the server decide on an average price for these items and all them to reach a wider audience and give them a chance to sell.


This post has been edited by igotleeched - April 23, 2012, 16:39:42.
145
Rare Item Hunter Missiz Freezz Waxer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-01-05
posté April 23, 2012, 17:09:03 | #31

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 16:31) *
A. I said that using your argument it WAS pointless for them to make the old market systems. I was using an example from the past when someone thought "I think a market would be a good idea" so the devs made it, and it turned out well. As far as I can tell that makes sense. Your argument here makes little sense. Your argument against instituting a dofus market is that there isn't one already? So anything that has been suggested before when the devs thought "eh, it doesn't seem that important right now" is a bad idea?

B. The current market systems can and does charge millions in tax (as in the examples mentioned above). If players want to avoid the tax, they sell elsewhere. If they don't mind the tax, they use the market. Some people prefer the market so they can sell while playing and not have to remember merchant mode.What makes you think there will be so much competition in selling turqs or other rare dofus on the market? According to your own logic, hardly anyone will want to sell on the market because of the tax so there won't be "undercutting every minute by desperate sellers." That's a pretty big hyperbole no matter what you're selling. Sure, there will be people who sell for less than others. Those people will sacrifice kamas. Those people can still sell for less by the current system in trade chat or merchant mode. Also, yes, I think that by the current market system billions are lost due to undercutting of all items across all markets. However, people only undercut to sell faster. This would allow them to sell even faster than the current system with the option of sacrificing kamas to increase the speed.

I don't understand something about your whole beef with this. You said that with the current system markets are always more expensive than merchants so you only check the markets if what you want isn't in merchants. I believe this is true. However, you go on to say that this will make people sacrifice kamas because of market undercutting. Other than the tax, how is this sacrificing kamas if the market is, as you say, more expensive than merchants. A tax cap seems like it could solve all your problems.
Also, as mentioned above, this market isn't just for turqs, crimson, ochre, and vulbis. With the current system it can be pretty annoying to sell 30wis cawwot, kaliptus dofus, or low hp emeralds because either nobody wants to buy or the pricing is too loosely defined. A market would basically make the server decide on an average price for these items and all them to reach a wider audience and give them a chance to sell.
A. Like I said, the old market system was never pointless because in the first place it is only logical to have a market for cheap resources... There was no 100mk items when the old market was created... I'm guessing there wasn't even a level 200 or a real dofus when the old market system was created. How can issues of 100mk gears appear during those time??? Pointless.

B. !00mk+ items are only ever put up in market when there is nobody who sells them around merchant. Those are highly sought items that is almost a guaranteed item to be bought within the 2 weeks placement. Dofus on the other hand is too expensive yet there are quite a lot in circulation. This means that the possibility of undercutting is very likely. Like I said, this is alarming since the kama drain in this magnitude is by the billions compared to regular item undercutting. Everytime someone undercut somebody else, then that person will remove his item and undercut back, the tax they paid on the first placement becomes a kama drain... They automatically lose millions and then paid another million to place it back again with another possibility of being undercut once more.... Now as a solo clienter, I am most of the time just a buyer, and I would really like it if there is undercutting of prices, since this means that I will have cheaper dofus in the long run.... But the billions of kama drains will also be bad for the in-game economy in the long run.



Nobody buys 30 wis cawwots nowadays.... I see cheap cawwots in the merchants for days and even in trade channel... Do you really think those cheap items deserve a market place? Maybe when there is a newly opened server (but then again, when I was in a newly opened server, everybody just get their own cawwots anyway.) I said it before, cheap dofuses are not the issues here, they can easily be found in merchants and trade chat without needing a market for it. The real issues here are the undercutting of expensive dofuses... As I said, a tax cap can alleviate such problem. Until there is one, a dofus market will be a pain in the economy.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 23, 2012, 17:58:39 | #32

Quote
Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 April 2012 04:46) That is you, from the people I have spoken with, this puts you squarely in the minority of players. If you have the time to do that everyday, then I commend you. Many people do not however, hence the reasoning for a market for dofuses.Well, it depends on whose perspective... Remember, you are an MCer who tend to run a high level guild with 50+ members run by only 3-5 people at any given time... Heck, I imagine your guildchat to be too silent because your 3 online MCer member would be too busy to chat. SA like me tends to have more time running around and look at merchants for discounts... We have more time than a typically busy MCer. Last I checked, Ankama said that there are less MCers than there are SA of 1-2 accounts... So MCers are actually the minority in numbers according to the official tally.
Fortune Five Hundred has 136 players at last count, maybe 30 of those accounts are run by me and a few other MCers in the guild, the other 100 people are single accounters, taking my accounts out of the the equation we get 30 to 35 people online several times a day, and we have one of the most lively and active guild chats on dofus I will wager.

And even if we are in the minority, we do more than any SCers, if you are a casual player, you can spare the 2 hours to check every merchant, I abhore sitting around checking merchants like that, I have clear defined goals every time I log onto dofus, checking merchants for hours at a time is not one of them.


Quote
Like I said, the old market system was never pointless because in the first place it is only logical to have a market for cheap resources... There was no 100mk items when the old market was created... I'm guessing there wasn't even a level 200 or a real dofus when the old market system was created. How can issues of 100mk gears appear during those time??? Pointless.
Whether or not there were at the beginning is irrelevant, the fact is there are now. And there are plenty of cheap dofuses out there now.


Quote
Nobody buys 30 wis cawwots nowadays.... I see cheap cawwots in the merchants for days and even in trade channel... Do you really think those cheap items deserve a market place?
This completely contradicts what you just said above. By your argument it is the perfect time to implement a dofus market if the Cawwots are selling for really cheap.


Quote
. !00mk+ items are only ever put up in market when there is nobody who sells them around merchant. Those are highly sought items that is almost a guaranteed item to be bought within the 2 weeks placement. Dofus on the other hand is too expensive yet there are quite a lot in circulation.
On Solar right now, you can buy an 11 crit Turquoise Dofus for 13mk. I will sell you an AP Maged Kringlove for 75mk. A 20 crit Turquoise Dofus is around 70mk on Solar. I have ap maged maybe 30 or 35 pieces of gear thus far, sold most of them and used the Bonta market to sell them EVERY time within 2 to 3 days. I have never set up a merchant mode and I never plan to.

I have never seen people undercut each other to sell the rare dofuses, and I doubt I ever will, they are a hot commodity and no matter how many are in circulation they will always be a sought-after item.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 18:08:44.
Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 18:49:32 | #33
"Nobody buys 30 wis cawwots nowadays.... I see cheap cawwots in the merchants for days and even in trade channel... Do you really think those cheap items deserve a market place? Maybe when there is a newly opened server (but then again, when I was in a newly opened server, everybody just get their own cawwots anyway.) I said it before, cheap dofuses are not the issues here, they can easily be found in merchants and trade chat without needing a market for it. The real issues here are the undercutting of expensive dofuses... As I said, a tax cap can alleviate such problem. Until there is one, a dofus market will be a pain in the economy."

You're just wrong. People do buy low cawwots (even if that wasn't my point) and the fact that they take longer to sell is all the more reason for a market. People don't want to spend all their time selling them or in merchant mode so they would throw them in the market so anyone who is looking for em can find them. Even the lowest dofus can usually sell for over 100kk which is more than a huge majority of items that sell in markets (i.e. resources) every day. Then you have the issue of undercutting the expensive ones....You still said that the market is more expensive than the merchants, so if anything, the merchants are the ones doing the undercutting. Your "real issue" is nonexistent by your own admission.
"Personally, I only check the market when I do not see what I want in merchant square, simply because merchants sell 20-50% cheaper than market prices (on most of the case)"
A tax cap would help, but these billion kama taxes you're imagining seem like they will actually make selling dofus in the market just as expensive as selling them cheaper in the merchants, but more people would be likely to see them. With the increased time an item can stay in the market I don't see this hurting anyone by making them pay a million+ kama tax more than once. Keep in mind they still wouldn't even be forced to do it once if they wanted to continue to merchant.


This post has been edited by igotleeched - April 23, 2012, 18:50:47.
153
Subscriber Pingwin Pwner
* * * * Member Since 2011-05-29
posté April 23, 2012, 18:58:19 | #34
I think there shouldn't be a dofus market due to the fact dofuses are meant to be RARE and not be able to just go to a market and buy one.

I think the devs didn't put a dofus market in for a reason.


This post has been edited by Sackrace - April 23, 2012, 18:58:50.
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 23, 2012, 19:02:02 | #35

Quote (Sackrace @ 23 April 2012 18:58) *
I think there shouldn't be a dofus market due to the fact dofuses are meant to be RARE and not be able to just go to a market and buy one.

I think the devs didn't put a dofus market in for a reason.
Some dofuses are, Cawwots, Kaliptus, hell even Emeralds now are very common. I believe they didn't add one at the start because dofuses were indeed very rare, but that is not the case anymore. They added a trophy market, that shows they are willing to add new markets, it is high time for a dofus market.


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 19:39:50 | #36
Since they go in the same slot, you could even add the dofus functionality to the trophy market like with livis to the pet market. If you're on a developed server, the only doufuses that would be considered rare enough to not warrant a market by only that opposition are vulbis and ochre. In our guild, pretty much everyone seems to be hunting a turq, buying one, or already has 1 or more


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 23, 2012, 19:57:22 | #37

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 19:39) *
Since they go in the same slot, you could even add the dofus functionality to the trophy market like with livis to the pet market. If you're on a developed server, the only doufuses that would be considered rare enough to not warrant a market by only that opposition are vulbis and ochre. In our guild, pretty much everyone seems to be hunting a turq, buying one, or already has 1 or more
I like the idea of adding them to the trophy market, would be even easier to implement.


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 20:04:22 | #38
Then give my post a smiley like you told me to do to you  


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 23, 2012, 20:33:12 | #39

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 20:04) *
Then give my post a smiley like you told me to do to you
I said +1 nabster, no one uses those smily faces. But I can't really +1 my own topic.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 20:33:34.
Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 20:34:42 | #40
the +1 button is a smiley face nabster


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 23, 2012, 20:35:58 | #41

Quote (igotleeched @ 23 April 2012 20:34) *
the +1 button is a smiley face nabster
Oh, never realized that.

But I should stop before I derail my own thread. So at this point we are at adding dofuses to the Trophy Market then?


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 20:40:41.
197
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-10-20
posté April 23, 2012, 21:46:06 | #42
Ankama hasn't set up a dofus market because they aren't looking to sell Dofus. Stupidly retarded pun aside, I really like the idea of adding dofuses to the trophy market as it would set up a more easily observable baseline for pricing as others have suggested. I also think the shield and trophy markets should be merged as both items are created by shield smiths, I don't understand why they had to create a new market for trophies.


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 23, 2012, 22:47:29 | #43
I agree with this idea too...having the shield market in Pandala is cool in theory (shields are for pvp players and that is alignment island basically), but it makes them annoying to get at sometimes. Just like bulb dungeon. Smiths of any alignment should be able to easily access their respective market IMO


This post has been edited by igotleeched - April 23, 2012, 22:48:41.
200
Subscriber Moon Hammerer
* * * * Member Since 2007-09-27
posté April 23, 2012, 23:02:51 | #44
I've been pushing this idea for awhile, but they always give the same old crap reason for not doing it. "It goes around the role playing aspect of the game. Dofus' are supposed to be rare, and when you get one, you're supposed to hold onto it." I find this reason to be complete crap.

I'd love a Dofus market for the same reason I love the other markets. I don't have the time, energy, or patience to run around the world of 12(14) checking every single merchant mode for something I need. I don't have the patience to get PMs from random trolltards who go on /b, PM you that they will sell/buy whatever you're trying to do, have you meet them somewhere and go "lololol NOOB! I WAS KIDDING!" And yes, this happens to me every time I've used /b, so I turn it off completely anymore.

They merged the markets for efficiency as far as I'm concerned. They should make a Dofus market for the same reason. I don't care if it costs me more money to put something into the marketplace, it's worth the extra traffic you get when trying to sell something.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
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posté April 23, 2012, 23:10:28 | #45

Quote (justabeast @ 23 April 2012 23:02) *
I've been pushing this idea for awhile, but they always give the same old crap reason for not doing it. "It goes around the role playing aspect of the game. Dofus' are supposed to be rare, and when you get one, you're supposed to hold onto it." I find this reason to be complete crap.

I'd love a Dofus market for the same reason I love the other markets. I don't have the time, energy, or patience to run around the world of 12(14) checking every single merchant mode for something I need. I don't have the patience to get PMs from random trolltards who go on /b, PM you that they will sell/buy whatever you're trying to do, have you meet them somewhere and go "lololol NOOB! I WAS KIDDING!" And yes, this happens to me every time I've used /b, so I turn it off completely anymore.

They merged the markets for efficiency as far as I'm concerned. They should make a Dofus market for the same reason. I don't care if it costs me more money to put something into the marketplace, it's worth the extra traffic you get when trying to sell something.
Try as I might I cannot find what role playing has to do with selling dofuses.

I guess it really just comes to down to the people who has tried to sell a lot of dofuses and found out how broken and abused the trade chat and the merchant system is are the ones who want the Dofus market, and the people who have not experienced it don't want it for the most part. Same as it is with everything else: MC vs SC.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - April 23, 2012, 23:14:26.
Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2009-04-08
posté April 24, 2012, 00:47:57 | #46
I'm SC and I fully support this. It would make it easier for me to find the stats on a dofus I wanted and sell the multiple ones currently in my possession. While I'm not dropping turqs like they're gobball wool (Philistine) I have a few cawwot/kaliptus and I occasionally run to get more.


199
Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2011-02-12
posté April 24, 2012, 02:47:52 | #47
ok why do we pay taxes if we get nothing out of them? or at least tax refunds in some way o-o ? did anyone look at it this way?


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté April 24, 2012, 03:04:24 | #48

Quote (real-iopa @ 24 April 2012 02:47) *
ok why do we pay taxes if we get nothing out of them? or at least tax refunds in some way o-o ? did anyone look at it this way?
Do the kamas get randomly generated or is there a fixed number of them? Never really thought about it.


153
Subscriber Pingwin Pwner
* * * * Member Since 2011-05-29
posté April 24, 2012, 17:10:57 | #49
The kamas gone into Market fee's etc is kama sink, they go into a dark abyss that doesn't come back. Ankama can just make kamas so there aren't a limited amount


Scaraleaf Planter
* Member Since 2008-06-26
posté April 26, 2012, 10:49:52 | #50
Back in the beta for Solar there not only was a Dofus Market, but also a Dofus Merchant, so it's not like Ankama doesn't already have the code needed to implement something like this. I would like to see this more for the selling of Cawwot Dofus and Kaliptus Dofus, as it would really help the circulation and market of those two, which is fairly large on Solar but not very stable.