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How Ankama is unknowingly supporting Harvester Bots
Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-04-17
posté November 27, 2012, 08:56:25 | #1
How Ankama is unknowingly supporting Harvester Bots The resource protectors that randomly appear during the harvesting process (farmer/alc) were made supposedly to break the programming thread of a harvester bot. However, contemporary programs easily loop this primitive hurdle. In point of fact, resource proctectors establish the dominance of bots by effectively breaking our resource queues, which is irritatingly time-consuming; the automated queuing system of a bot effectively minimizes time consumption for them. Food for thought, Ankama?


This post has been edited by Robeine - February 28, 2014, 16:00:21.
Reason for edit : Spelin mistaykes ^^
Former Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2012-08-30
posté November 27, 2012, 09:45:29 | #2
So..... Ankama could remove the resource queueing again to make you happy?

I would rather like to see Ankama do some more stuff to make harvesting less repetive. Certainly not that you just enter a map, click on all resources and switch to TV for the next 5 minutes. This would make everyone into some kind of bot.


Maybe gathering challenges that increase Profession XP when done correctly (can't really come up with good ideas ). Mini-Games could be an option, but are quite awkward to justify and many player probably hate them..


Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-04-17
posté November 27, 2012, 09:56:15 | #3
Ankama could re-iterate your resource queue post the fight with the protector. Simple as that.


Former Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2012-08-30
posté November 27, 2012, 10:26:04 | #4
As I said, I think that would be a step in the wrong direction since it makes the harvest system even more automated.


Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-04-17
posté November 27, 2012, 11:04:51 | #5
THINK for a second, please. The current system means bots reign supreme.


This post has been edited by Robeine - November 27, 2012, 16:55:16.
Premier Puzzler Royal Tofu Plucker
* * * Member Since 2008-04-13
posté November 27, 2012, 14:23:32 | #6

Quote (MamoChiba @ 27 November 2012 10:26) *
As I said, I think that would be a step in the wrong direction since it makes the harvest system even more automated.
This.

You say resource protectors are a small hurdle for botters, but if you get rid of having to re-queue, its not even a hurdle. Besides, I believe Ankama wants professions to be something that you should have to invest in and take time for (actively) and I don't see anything wrong with that.


This post has been edited by BluSkies - November 27, 2012, 14:24:08.
F2P Member Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2012-09-11
posté November 27, 2012, 16:06:43 | #7

Quote (Robeine @ 27 November 2012 11:04) *
THINK for a second, please the current system means bots reign supreme.
Do think a bit more for a moment. 99% of the harvester bots in existence on dofus are click and run bots. They have no combat ability at all. If they had the ability to fight on each bot, how do you explain me being able to lock up bots in combat with a level 20 aligned alt until moderators can take care of them? And you also realize the bots dont even use the queue system present in the game? The simplest bot is a friggin point and click macro that runs on a small loop. I could easily write such a thing myself if I was so inclined. The fact I have no inclination to do so, combined with the fact that it would bore me to tears, doesnt discount the knowledge that it's pitifully easy.




Not to mention the whole doomsayer attitude is kinda old and pointless. If bots "reigned supreme," how is it I can level harvester professions without an issue?


Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-04-17
posté November 27, 2012, 16:54:00 | #8

Quote (Digitized @ 27 November 2012 16:06) *
They have no combat ability at all. If they had the ability to fight on each bot, how do you explain me being able to lock up bots in combat with a level 20 aligned alt until moderators can take care of them?


1) Since they have no combat ability, simply the appearance of the protector is enough of a hurdle.

2) Since bots do not employ resource queuing, the dissapearance of resource queues post fights with protectors is a hindrance to the honest player, not to bots.

And it is the present situation. Like it or not, most of the economy is run by bots. If there were no bots, everything you have, everything you gather would sell for alteast thrice as much.


This post has been edited by Robeine - November 27, 2012, 16:54:49.
187
Subscriber Pingwin Pwner
* * * * Member Since 2011-05-24
posté November 27, 2012, 17:32:05 | #9

Quote (Robeine @ 27 November 2012 16:54) *
If there were no bots, everything you have, everything you gather would sell for alteast thrice as much.
Everything? including gear and such? I don't think so even with recources..


F2P Member Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2012-09-11
posté November 27, 2012, 17:50:49 | #10

Quote (Robeine @ 27 November 2012 16:54) *

Quote (Digitized @ 27 November 2012 16:06) *
They have no combat ability at all. If they had the ability to fight on each bot, how do you explain me being able to lock up bots in combat with a level 20 aligned alt until moderators can take care of them?


1) Since they have no combat ability, simply the appearance of the protector is enough of a hurdle.

2) Since bots do not employ resource queuing, the dissapearance of resource queues post fights with protectors is a hindrance to the honest player, not to bots.

And it is the present situation. Like it or not, most of the economy is run by bots. If there were no bots, everything you have, everything you gather would sell for alteast thrice as much.
Not likely. If there were no bots, more players would be obtaining gathering professions. And it's ZERO hindrance to a player. It IS a hindrance to the lazy do-nothing players who dont even want to take the 15-20 seconds it takes to re-select the queue.


Former Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2012-12-29
posté January 12, 2013, 06:37:27 | #11
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.


189
Sprite (Zatoishwan)
Noblesse Oblige
Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2010-02-07
posté January 31, 2013, 22:23:20 | #12

Quote (Suddyyz @ 12 January 2013 06:37) *
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.

That is actually a much better solution than ankamas - as far as my knowledge of bots goes anyway. perhaps have a captcha (An easy to read one, not them crazy silly ones) incase bots can be programmed to delete things from the inventory.


Community Manager Klime Buttonholer
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-10-19
posté February 01, 2013, 11:43:36 | #13

Quote (UK-FireFighter @ 31 January 2013 22:23) *

Quote (Suddyyz @ 12 January 2013 06:37) *
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.

That is actually a much better solution than ankamas - as far as my knowledge of bots goes anyway. perhaps have a captcha (An easy to read one, not them crazy silly ones) incase bots can be programmed to delete things from the inventory.

I did a bit of testing with this on bots at one point by adding cannonballs to their inventories. They can identify the item and delete it within 10 to 30 seconds.

An in-game captcha is also ineffective in the long run. There is already a captcha system in the account creation process, and it poses little to no obstacle to botters creating accounts. Even if the bot itself cannot solve the captcha, there are services for bot-runners that provide human eyeballs to solve captchas almost instantaneously. The most likely outcome is that there could be a period of two to three weeks where the bots would struggle. Then their owners would solve the issue. After that, only players would struggle with captchas.
This would be a lot of development time essentially wasted on a feature that would end up only annoying legitimate players.

I recommend reading the other thread established for this discussion, as a great number of these possible solutions are covered and concrete information about the botting situation is given: Click here 


Former Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2012-12-29
posté February 02, 2013, 02:15:15 | #14

Quote (Izmar @ 01 February 2013 11:43) *

Quote (UK-FireFighter @ 31 January 2013 22:23) *

Quote (Suddyyz @ 12 January 2013 06:37) *
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.

That is actually a much better solution than ankamas - as far as my knowledge of bots goes anyway. perhaps have a captcha (An easy to read one, not them crazy silly ones) incase bots can be programmed to delete things from the inventory.

I did a bit of testing with this on bots at one point by adding cannonballs to their inventories. They can identify the item and delete it within 10 to 30 seconds.

An in-game captcha is also ineffective in the long run. There is already a captcha system in the account creation process, and it poses little to no obstacle to botters creating accounts. Even if the bot itself cannot solve the captcha, there are services for bot-runners that provide human eyeballs to solve captchas almost instantaneously. The most likely outcome is that there could be a period of two to three weeks where the bots would struggle. Then their owners would solve the issue. After that, only players would struggle with captchas.
This would be a lot of development time essentially wasted on a feature that would end up only annoying legitimate players.

I recommend reading the other thread established for this discussion, as a great number of these possible solutions are covered and concrete information about the botting situation is given: Click here
Doubt you would read this anyways, but for anyone else reading. You know when we need to sign up for an account for almost anything, and we need to copy down a couple letters and numbers? The random generated code, what if every once in a while, a little popup comes up with one of those? When one of these pop up, you have 10 minutes to answer, and if not, you automatically get disconnected from the game? As far as i know, bots can't bypass that (maybe they can). Because there are so many possibilities. I can't think of any ways a botter could get through it. If you have any ideas, let me know.

-Core-Attack


Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2006-04-14
posté February 02, 2013, 14:40:21 | #15

Quote (Suddyyz @ 02 February 2013 02:15) *

Quote (Izmar @ 01 February 2013 11:43) *

Quote (UK-FireFighter @ 31 January 2013 22:23) *

Quote (Suddyyz @ 12 January 2013 06:37) *
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.

That is actually a much better solution than ankamas - as far as my knowledge of bots goes anyway. perhaps have a captcha (An easy to read one, not them crazy silly ones) incase bots can be programmed to delete things from the inventory.

I did a bit of testing with this on bots at one point by adding cannonballs to their inventories. They can identify the item and delete it within 10 to 30 seconds.

An in-game captcha is also ineffective in the long run. There is already a captcha system in the account creation process, and it poses little to no obstacle to botters creating accounts. Even if the bot itself cannot solve the captcha, there are services for bot-runners that provide human eyeballs to solve captchas almost instantaneously. The most likely outcome is that there could be a period of two to three weeks where the bots would struggle. Then their owners would solve the issue. After that, only players would struggle with captchas.
This would be a lot of development time essentially wasted on a feature that would end up only annoying legitimate players.

I recommend reading the other thread established for this discussion, as a great number of these possible solutions are covered and concrete information about the botting situation is given: Click here
Doubt you would read this anyways, but for anyone else reading. You know when we need to sign up for an account for almost anything, and we need to copy down a couple letters and numbers? The random generated code, what if every once in a while, a little popup comes up with one of those? When one of these pop up, you have 10 minutes to answer, and if not, you automatically get disconnected from the game? As far as i know, bots can't bypass that (maybe they can). Because there are so many possibilities. I can't think of any ways a botter could get through it. If you have any ideas, let me know.

-Core-Attack


as izmar said.. the creators of the bots are very fast in finding ways around problems... a pretty long time bots fell for the "bwak trick" opening a bwakegg on bot hunting ground made the bots rush the bwak and since they couldnt attack it, where frozen there... you could easy capture 50 and more bots thet way... sadly bots no longer fall for it.. now it takes around 20 seconds till the bots leave the map and hunt somewhere else.. the only way to stop bots is to stop people buying cash or chars from those companys, but since there are always greedy or lazy players this will never happen..
 


This post has been edited by Marleen - February 02, 2013, 14:48:54.
Reason for edit : text edit
Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2011-03-31
posté February 02, 2013, 21:15:08 | #16

Quote (Suddyyz @ 02 February 2013 02:15) *

Quote (Izmar @ 01 February 2013 11:43) *

Quote (UK-FireFighter @ 31 January 2013 22:23) *

Quote (Suddyyz @ 12 January 2013 06:37) *
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.

That is actually a much better solution than ankamas - as far as my knowledge of bots goes anyway. perhaps have a captcha (An easy to read one, not them crazy silly ones) incase bots can be programmed to delete things from the inventory.

I did a bit of testing with this on bots at one point by adding cannonballs to their inventories. They can identify the item and delete it within 10 to 30 seconds.

An in-game captcha is also ineffective in the long run. There is already a captcha system in the account creation process, and it poses little to no obstacle to botters creating accounts. Even if the bot itself cannot solve the captcha, there are services for bot-runners that provide human eyeballs to solve captchas almost instantaneously. The most likely outcome is that there could be a period of two to three weeks where the bots would struggle. Then their owners would solve the issue. After that, only players would struggle with captchas.
This would be a lot of development time essentially wasted on a feature that would end up only annoying legitimate players.

I recommend reading the other thread established for this discussion, as a great number of these possible solutions are covered and concrete information about the botting situation is given: Click here
Doubt you would read this anyways, but for anyone else reading. You know when we need to sign up for an account for almost anything, and we need to copy down a couple letters and numbers? The random generated code, what if every once in a while, a little popup comes up with one of those? When one of these pop up, you have 10 minutes to answer, and if not, you automatically get disconnected from the game? As far as i know, bots can't bypass that (maybe they can). Because there are so many possibilities. I can't think of any ways a botter could get through it. If you have any ideas, let me know.

-Core-Attack

Izmar just said in her post (the post you quoted :p) that in-game captchas are ineffective.


25
Derp (Rushu)
Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2007-11-12
posté February 03, 2013, 00:33:22 | #17
I wouldn't mind resource protectors so much if they didn't appear so often. Their probability of appearing is pretty high so they come up relatively sparsely on the high tier, low saturation resources (snowdrop) but they come up way too often when gathering low tier, highly saturated resources (hemp). It gets aggravating when every 2-3 minutes you spawn a resource protector you end up one shotting for a bag of 50 hemp when you could gather 100 in the time it took to end the fight.


Former Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2012-12-29
posté February 03, 2013, 07:13:10 | #18

Quote (bizznizz @ 02 February 2013 21:15) *

Quote (Suddyyz @ 02 February 2013 02:15) *

Quote (Izmar @ 01 February 2013 11:43) *

Quote (UK-FireFighter @ 31 January 2013 22:23) *

Quote (Suddyyz @ 12 January 2013 06:37) *
This may be an old thread, but i thought of something recently. What if once in a while, the wheat drops a 'anvil' which ways 10,000 pods. And the only way to continue farming or to gather your resources is to delete the anvil from your inventory. The anvil is linked to the character. I don't see any downfall in this tbh. Just something to think about.

That is actually a much better solution than ankamas - as far as my knowledge of bots goes anyway. perhaps have a captcha (An easy to read one, not them crazy silly ones) incase bots can be programmed to delete things from the inventory.

I did a bit of testing with this on bots at one point by adding cannonballs to their inventories. They can identify the item and delete it within 10 to 30 seconds.

An in-game captcha is also ineffective in the long run. There is already a captcha system in the account creation process, and it poses little to no obstacle to botters creating accounts. Even if the bot itself cannot solve the captcha, there are services for bot-runners that provide human eyeballs to solve captchas almost instantaneously. The most likely outcome is that there could be a period of two to three weeks where the bots would struggle. Then their owners would solve the issue. After that, only players would struggle with captchas.
This would be a lot of development time essentially wasted on a feature that would end up only annoying legitimate players.

I recommend reading the other thread established for this discussion, as a great number of these possible solutions are covered and concrete information about the botting situation is given: Click here
Doubt you would read this anyways, but for anyone else reading. You know when we need to sign up for an account for almost anything, and we need to copy down a couple letters and numbers? The random generated code, what if every once in a while, a little popup comes up with one of those? When one of these pop up, you have 10 minutes to answer, and if not, you automatically get disconnected from the game? As far as i know, bots can't bypass that (maybe they can). Because there are so many possibilities. I can't think of any ways a botter could get through it. If you have any ideas, let me know.

-Core-Attack

Izmar just said in her post (the post you quoted :p) that in-game captchas are ineffective.
Ooh, sorry for my ignorance. I clearly didn't know what a captcha was.

-Core-Attack


189
Sprite (Zatoishwan)
Noblesse Oblige
Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2010-02-07
posté February 03, 2013, 20:24:37 | #19
These pesky bots are more clever than i suspected. Oh well, thanks for the response though Izmar

There was some good ideas while they lasted i guess haha!


Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2013-02-02
posté February 08, 2013, 05:04:12 | #20
I'm not sure if this thread is considered old and what not, but I think the solution should be that there aren't resource protectors in subscriber areas. What do you guys think? I don't think many bots are subscribed so I don't think there's a need for the system there.


Former Subscriber Ouginak Torturer
* Member Since 2012-01-27
posté February 08, 2013, 05:54:24 | #21
i have an idea too!

now: if you defeat the protector, then you get 50 resources else you lose nothing, except a little bit of energy.

new: if you defeat the protector, then you get 100 resources else you LOSE HALF of resources that this protector defend ,)

additionaly make time for turn near 15-30 seconds and make protectors level equal resorces level.


200
General-Ticy (Solar)
Wild
Subscriber Kitsou Beater
* * Member Since 2011-04-13
posté February 08, 2013, 11:00:04 | #22
I actually run and hope for a protector to appear. Especially on resources which give 1 to 2. Then 50 resource bag in one fight is a jackpot.


Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2008-02-05
posté February 08, 2013, 11:06:06 | #23

Quote (Eternal-Sonata @ 03 February 2013 00:33) *
I wouldn't mind resource protectors so much if they didn't appear so often. Their probability of appearing is pretty high so they come up relatively sparsely on the high tier, low saturation resources (snowdrop) but they come up way too often when gathering low tier, highly saturated resources (hemp). It gets aggravating when every 2-3 minutes you spawn a resource protector you end up one shotting for a bag of 50 hemp when you could gather 100 in the time it took to end the fight.
In my opinion there are to low protectors.
Whenever i'm harvesting something, i usually get 2 protectors in an hour.
I like protectors because of the extra ore.

~Aura


200
Golden-Etemaii (Shika)
Black Light
Subscriber Ouginak Torturer
* Member Since 2012-05-10
posté February 08, 2013, 12:32:34 | #24

Quote (LegendaryV @ 08 February 2013 05:04) *
I'm not sure if this thread is considered old and what not, but I think the solution should be that there aren't resource protectors in subscriber areas. What do you guys think? I don't think many bots are subscribed so I don't think there's a need for the system there.
You are partially right, however there are MANY bots located in subscriber areas. I see them farming namely piwis and North-Bonta mobs (fungi masters/sunflowers etc). So the problem still lies within the subscriber reefs.

As to the solution, there nearly isn't one. Captchas will make people pluck out their hair, not to mention that this doesn't even work for account creations anyway. Stopping devourers will only make it easier for bots, and harder for people to collect resources. I'm still thinking of a solution, but we have to ask ourselves, is there one?


Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2013-02-02
posté February 08, 2013, 22:47:12 | #25

Quote (mendezstyle @ 08 February 2013 12:32) *

Quote (LegendaryV @ 08 February 2013 05:04) *
I'm not sure if this thread is considered old and what not, but I think the solution should be that there aren't resource protectors in subscriber areas. What do you guys think? I don't think many bots are subscribed so I don't think there's a need for the system there.
You are partially right, however there are MANY bots located in subscriber areas. I see them farming namely piwis and North-Bonta mobs (fungi masters/sunflowers etc). So the problem still lies within the subscriber reefs.

As to the solution, there nearly isn't one. Captchas will make people pluck out their hair, not to mention that this doesn't even work for account creations anyway. Stopping devourers will only make it easier for bots, and harder for people to collect resources. I'm still thinking of a solution, but we have to ask ourselves, is there one?
I believe there is one. We are human, we have the potential if we are willing to use our heads.


Former Subscriber Minotoror Tamer
* * * Member Since 2008-09-18
posté February 08, 2013, 23:48:23 | #26
They might help the bots, but they help new players much more. As a low level lumberjack or miner, fighting resource guardians represents your main income of desired resource.


F2P Member Quetsnakiatl Cruncher
* * Member Since 2013-01-20
posté February 18, 2013, 06:35:04 | #27

Quote (MisTbladEr @ 08 February 2013 23:48) *
They might help the bots, but they help new players much more. As a low level lumberjack or miner, fighting resource guardians represents your main income of desired resource.
Lol no


190
Hungry-Mama (Zatoishwan)
Avarice
Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2011-11-04
posté February 18, 2013, 22:29:05 | #28
Alternatively, Ankama could change the protectors so that they level up similar to the way dopples level up against the character level of the player (or even the profession level of the character fighting the protector.) Low-level protectors might not drop anything at all and have few hit points, while higher level protectors would hit harder, have more spells, have more hit points, and drop substantially more resources - perhaps even 2 or more bags of resources? Unless the protectors get really good at killing bots, this will at least make it more interesting for players and give enough resources to make up for the time spent fighting the protector.


This post has been edited by Disgustus - February 19, 2013, 00:18:11.
Former Subscriber Minotoror Tamer
* * * Member Since 2008-09-18
posté February 19, 2013, 12:20:22 | #29

Quote (Pryanya @ 18 February 2013 06:35) *

Quote (MisTbladEr @ 08 February 2013 23:48) *
They might help the bots, but they help new players much more. As a low level lumberjack or miner, fighting resource guardians represents your main income of desired resource.
Lol no
Thank you for your constructive reply full of valid points and relevant data to back it up.


Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2013-02-02
posté February 23, 2013, 20:13:51 | #30

Quote (Disgustus @ 18 February 2013 22:29) *
Alternatively, Ankama could change the protectors so that they level up similar to the way dopples level up against the character level of the player (or even the profession level of the character fighting the protector.) Low-level protectors might not drop anything at all and have few hit points, while higher level protectors would hit harder, have more spells, have more hit points, and drop substantially more resources - perhaps even 2 or more bags of resources? Unless the protectors get really good at killing bots, this will at least make it more interesting for players and give enough resources to make up for the time spent fighting the protector.
This. I strongly support your idea.


Quote (MisTbladEr @ 08 February 2013 23:48) *
They might help the bots, but they help new players much more. As a low level lumberjack or miner, fighting resource guardians represents your main income of desired resource.
No, as a low level, the priority is leveling the profession. As you know there is no experience gain for resource protector fights.


Former Subscriber Minotoror Tamer
* * * Member Since 2008-09-18
posté February 23, 2013, 22:38:55 | #31

Quote (LegendaryV @ 23 February 2013 20:13) *

Quote (MisTbladEr @ 08 February 2013 23:48) *
They might help the bots, but they help new players much more. As a low level lumberjack or miner, fighting resource guardians represents your main income of desired resource.
No, as a low level, the priority is leveling the profession. As you know there is no experience gain for resource protector fights.
I wasn't talking about experience at all. With level 10 miner, getting those 50 minerals from a bag is worth a lot of mining time. Having level 80 lumberjack, it's much faster for me to kill the guardian than to chop 50 logs, even with ash.


Former Subscriber Quetsnakiatl Cruncher
* * Member Since 2012-03-30
posté February 23, 2013, 23:34:07 | #32
Thing is, it varies by person.
I care as much about leveling as I do the resources I get.
I would rather not have to deal with Resource Protectors. They become irritating, and when I'm gathering, I just like to gather. However, at the same time, without Resource Protectors, Fishing would be far less lucrative.


Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2013-02-02
posté February 25, 2013, 11:00:02 | #33
Alright. So how about this? Subscribers can choose to turn on/off resource protectors, or maybe there aren't any if your profession is level 100, AND resource protectors give experience towards the profession, while the rewards get higher based on profession level.


Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2011-03-31
posté February 27, 2013, 08:04:33 | #34
I actually discussed a topic similar to this recently. The spawn rate of resource protectors for farmer is way too high. I mean ridiculously high. I've had about 4 protector fights in around a 5-6 minute time frame and Im not even exaggerating.

I get aggravated and log off.


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2010-06-20
posté March 28, 2013, 07:06:24 | #35
i know that dofus has for a long time had a problem with bots. the sad thing is alot of the proposed ideas or the ideas implemented hurt real players. on a side note imma bring up a game that i still play that was two riddled with bots, runescape. this game was plagued by bots although it still is it is by far under a much more manageable level. Runescape tried to "stay a step ahead of the bots" by removing many things players loved (much like dofus has done) which the bots then next week had a working bot and runescape had less and less players. The only way to deal with bots is to be more aggressive and attack the botters not the things that are botted. although you can try to solve the problem by taking away stuff bots have scripts for but this will only buy you time and kill your player bases. Runescape lost a large portion of there player bases by removing key features, the game then put it to a vote if the features would be reinstated a few years later. the features were voted back in but not without a price to pay. Bots returned and a large portion of the player base was gone never to return. The company then started active lawsuits against company's that sold or offered runescape bots, along with aggressive pushes by there programing team for anti bot procedures. Although the fight is still on going the players have responded to the slow progress. Essentially the moral of this example is you wont win the war against bots by simply removing resource scrolling, spell point scrolling, and anything else the player bases has enjoyed. You will simply upset players, and the bots will find a new cash cow of the game till you have removed everything. So not to be rude but essentially it comes down to the programmers, developers, and ingame mods to make this happen. Runescape tried the same things you did and they didnt work. take a lesson from there mess ups.

P.s perhaps make the report option ingame a little bit faster then sending a forsaken support ticket.


193
Former Subscriber Thrower of Barbrossa
* * Member Since 2005-12-12
posté April 20, 2013, 17:04:30 | #36
As long as there is spam in your inbox and junk mail in your snail mail inbox there will be bots...

The only way to get rid of bots is to kill the food they consume...


Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2005-12-21
posté April 20, 2013, 17:34:23 | #37

Quote (worldkit @ 20 April 2013 17:04) *
As long as there is spam in your inbox and junk mail in your snail mail inbox there will be bots...

The only way to get rid of bots is to kill the food they consume...
You mean just like they removed resources for characteristic scrolls?
Only thing that did was make Assrub City a little bit less cluttered (Who cares,sub or don't complain) and drive all the bots to professions.

Great idea worldkit.


Former Subscriber Minotoror Tamer
* * * Member Since 2008-09-18
posté April 22, 2013, 12:52:11 | #38

Quote (worldkit @ 20 April 2013 17:04) *
As long as there is spam in your inbox and junk mail in your snail mail inbox there will be bots...

The only way to get rid of bots is to kill the food they consume...
That would require monsters to lose the ability to drop kamas. What most people can't seem to understand is that bots only gather the kamas, they drop the resources. That's why they've not dissapeared after the scroll update.

It's also why specificaly this topic is pointless. There are ways to fight the bots, but the person creating this topic was horribly misinformed on how bots work.

I think Ankama knows the code of the game and they know the best what to do. You might have some great ideas on how to stop the bots, but it might not be compatible with the game's code.


Subscriber Boowolf Squisher
* * Member Since 2007-05-13
posté April 23, 2013, 04:57:32 | #39

Quote (bizznizz @ 27 February 2013 08:04) *
I actually discussed a topic similar to this recently. The spawn rate of resource protectors for farmer is way too high. I mean ridiculously high. I've had about 4 protector fights in around a 5-6 minute time frame and Im not even exaggerating.

I get aggravated and log off.
only you would get aggrevated. i don't mind collecting more than 1 frosteez at a time x.x


Subscriber Larva
* Member Since 2011-11-19
posté May 25, 2013, 06:47:16 | #40
My 2 cents,
I've been playing AND ENJOYING Dofus since Rushu Beta, I can't think of a time after beta that bots weren't around.
If Ankama COULD fix them, they'd be fixed by now. The companies who use these bots to make their kamas to sell on their sites to lazy players also pay REAL PEOPLE to work around the hills Ankama has sent them time after time. I do believe that majority of the resources that the MASS MAJORITY of players buy to level professions comes from botting systems from these companies. It took me a little under 2mk to level Staff Carver to 65 along with magus to 100 on Rushu. If bots weren't around I have no doubt in my mind it'd taken me at least 8mk to do this. Markets would be far more competitive, the surplus of resources in the market would be gone. It'd be first come first serve in the market world forcing you lazy players to go and do what I've been doing for 8 years on this wonderful game. You don't like it, leave.


Quote (iloveminers @ 28 March 2013 07:06) *
i know that dofus has for a long time had a problem with bots. the sad thing is alot of the proposed ideas or the ideas implemented hurt real players. on a side note imma bring up a game that i still play that was two riddled with bots, runescape. this game was plagued by bots although it still is it is by far under a much more manageable level. Runescape tried to "stay a step ahead of the bots" by removing many things players loved (much like dofus has done) which the bots then next week had a working bot and runescape had less and less players. The only way to deal with bots is to be more aggressive and attack the botters not the things that are botted. although you can try to solve the problem by taking away stuff bots have scripts for but this will only buy you time and kill your player bases. Runescape lost a large portion of there player bases by removing key features, the game then put it to a vote if the features would be reinstated a few years later. the features were voted back in but not without a price to pay. Bots returned and a large portion of the player base was gone never to return. The company then started active lawsuits against company's that sold or offered runescape bots, along with aggressive pushes by there programing team for anti bot procedures. Although the fight is still on going the players have responded to the slow progress. Essentially the moral of this example is you wont win the war against bots by simply removing resource scrolling, spell point scrolling, and anything else the player bases has enjoyed. You will simply upset players, and the bots will find a new cash cow of the game till you have removed everything. So not to be rude but essentially it comes down to the programmers, developers, and ingame mods to make this happen. Runescape tried the same things you did and they didnt work. take a lesson from there mess ups.

P.s perhaps make the report option ingame a little bit faster then sending a forsaken support ticket.
I agree with this statement "to attack the botters not the accounts" IP BAN BOTTING ACCOUNTS. Get rid of the IP get rid of the super computer hosting 40 accounts at 1 time


Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2009-01-30
posté June 21, 2013, 16:07:20 | #41
IP banns simply does not work due to proxies and dynamic IPs, that they have tried this has lead to many problems for people with Internet Service Providers that are in the IP ranges bots have used as they have been banned for no fault of their own.
(the IP-range got banned and they are inside it)


Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2006-10-15
posté June 21, 2013, 23:54:44 | #42

Quote (MisTbladEr @ 23 February 2013 22:38) *

Quote (LegendaryV @ 23 February 2013 20:13) *

Quote (MisTbladEr @ 08 February 2013 23:48) *
They might help the bots, but they help new players much more. As a low level lumberjack or miner, fighting resource guardians represents your main income of desired resource.
No, as a low level, the priority is leveling the profession. As you know there is no experience gain for resource protector fights.
I wasn't talking about experience at all. With level 10 miner, getting those 50 minerals from a bag is worth a lot of mining time. Having level 80 lumberjack, it's much faster for me to kill the guardian than to chop 50 logs, even with ash.
It is only good till you get your profession to 100... At 100 you can harvest 50 logs/wheat/iron in 4 seconds if you're lucky, and a little more if not. They should make the number of resources in the bag bigger according to profession level otherwise its just annoying (and you tend to get more protectors the higher level you are, because you harvest faster)


This post has been edited by -Nodoka- - June 21, 2013, 23:55:06.
136
Toolbox (Rushu)
Kindness
Former Subscriber Minotoror Tamer
* * * Member Since 2005-10-27
posté July 09, 2013, 20:23:15 | #43

Quote (LegendaryV @ 08 February 2013 22:47) *

Quote (mendezstyle @ 08 February 2013 12:32) *

Quote (LegendaryV @ 08 February 2013 05:04) *
I'm not sure if this thread is considered old and what not, but I think the solution should be that there aren't resource protectors in subscriber areas. What do you guys think? I don't think many bots are subscribed so I don't think there's a need for the system there.
You are partially right, however there are MANY bots located in subscriber areas. I see them farming namely piwis and North-Bonta mobs (fungi masters/sunflowers etc). So the problem still lies within the subscriber reefs.

As to the solution, there nearly isn't one. Captchas will make people pluck out their hair, not to mention that this doesn't even work for account creations anyway. Stopping devourers will only make it easier for bots, and harder for people to collect resources. I'm still thinking of a solution, but we have to ask ourselves, is there one?
I believe there is one. We are human, we have the potential if we are willing to use our heads.
The problem is, bot programmers are also willing to use their heads. Anything one person is smart enough to build, another is smart enough to destroy.

There is no preventing bots, period. At least not on as large a scale as Dofus.

The most effective solution to botting is to reduce the gap between botters and legitimate players. Resource queuing is an excellent example of this, allowing legitimate players to keep up with bots.

As for those complaining about resource protectors... Go after Obsidian, or Frosteez, or Snowdrop, or whatever the Lumberjack equivalent is that I can't remember. The protectors are a godsend for those resources. That said, I've already stated that you can't stop bots, and the resource protectors are no exception. They don't really hinder bots any more than they do normal players, thus no gap is closed through their existence.

On the other hand, however, they do typically hinder low-level resources more than high-level resources. And how often do you see bots in the Obsidian mines?


Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-04-17
posté February 28, 2014, 16:09:36 | #44
Thing is, bot programmers have enough incentive to keep staying a step ahead. Sys-secs catch immediate clicks, bot quacks introduce gaps between clicks. Sys-secs look out for constant gaps, bot quacks generate random time functions. A checkmate for either side seems distant to the point of unrealistic.

My two cents - maybe make the dofus client freeze (in terms of input) while other windows are active? Users surf the wiki for info as they play, yes, but they don't need the client active simultaneously. They can read, then minimize the window, and their client unfreezes. In contrast, it is my belief that most botters use simultaneously active picture-input-based tactile programs. If the client freezes input, these probably wouldn't work.


Former Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2008-07-15
posté February 28, 2014, 18:52:21 | #45

Quote (Robeine @ 28 February 2014 16:09) *
My two cents - maybe make the dofus client freeze (in terms of input) while other windows are active? Users surf the wiki for info as they play, yes, but they don't need the client active simultaneously. They can read, then minimize the window, and their client unfreezes. In contrast, it is my belief that most botters use simultaneously active picture-input-based tactile programs. If the client freezes input, these probably wouldn't work.
When I play dofus, I have my client (or clients if I'm multi-accounting) on one monitor and my web browser on the other monitor. On said monitor would be ~5 forum tabs, and 10~15 wiki tabs. I regularly switch to and fro between windows and tabs whether I am in PvM, PvP, resource gathering, maging, or getting something maged.

I would hate for the client to freeze if it unhighlighted (which is virtually, the same as being minimised if you have multiple monitors)


Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2011-04-17
posté March 01, 2014, 15:15:48 | #46
Freezing and unfreezing input only, so the time interval between you switching back to the client and the unfreezing would be virtually nothing.


Former Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2010-06-12
posté March 15, 2014, 10:17:46 | #47
random math question each time encounter RP.  


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2014-02-05
posté March 31, 2014, 13:01:36 | #48
If only they put half the effort they do modding the forums towards the bot problem.


200
Colourful (Rushu)
Misfits
Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2008-07-13
posté April 08, 2014, 07:37:44 | #49
Maybe a possible way to please legit players with the whole resource protector would be to give between 100-500 xp towards the respective profession whenever the protector is defeated? This may not help lv 100 prof players, but would certainly be appealing to those trying to grind levels in their profession.


This post has been edited by Fancyfoot - April 08, 2014, 07:38:18.
200
Piro (Solar)
Rosemary
Subscriber Greedovore Devourer
* * * Member Since 2009-05-31
posté April 08, 2014, 08:29:18 | #50
I'd like to know how successful the resource protectors in wakfu are. I hear theyre good, but as I can't be bothered to play wakfu myself, I woudln't know for a fact.