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The Achievement System
Community Manager Celestial Bearbarian Basher
* * * * * * Member Since 2009-10-19
posté November 22, 2012, 12:03:00 | #1
The Achievement System The Achievements are the main new functionality and content of the 2.9.0 update. Be ye a sweet, wobbly little beginner or a nail-spitting hardcore veteran (who finished the game 10 times and completed Frigost before version 1.27 was even released), you'll be able to get something out of this new system.



In DOFUS, Achievements correspond to in-game objectives. They allow you to track your progression (game completion) and take on new challenges.




Objectives



We didn’t want to create an Achievement system that only gave a player bragging rights. Achievements will also:



  •  Offer new gameplay options to all players: Achievements are available for everyone from level 1 to 200, playing alone or in group, and they are tied in to almost all the activities the game has to offer. In a nutshell: they involve all types of players.



 •  Give players an alternative mean of progress: by giving Kamas, experience, and resources (among other things), Achievements will offer a fun alternative way to progress as a character.



 •  Guide players and give them concrete objectives: Achievements can be considered as missions to complete, with a dedicated interface for tracking your progress and organized by zone or level of difficulty.



 •  Highlight the diversification of activities available in DOFUS: Achievements will target almost all the game content and will encourage players to discover content that has been put aside, forgotten, or might not even be known by most players. Achievements will also push players to get involved in a wide range of activities rather than always using the same activities to progress (“farming” of monsters or dungeons for example).



 •  Highlight difficulty and reward challenge and risk-taking: some Achievements require a lot of organization, training, and thoroughness. Players will be rewarded for their commitment.



 •  Put in place a global mechanic that works on merit: by rewarding risk-taking, knowledge and overall mastery of the game (zones, monsters, quests, dungeons, professions, etc.), we’ll be able to give away rewards that are consistent with a player’s skills and merit with greater ease.



“How does it work?”



The Achievement system is pretty simple; they're organized in an interface and sorted by category (professions, exploration, quests, dungeons, etc.).

The details of an Achievement allow players to learn the objectives they need to fulfill to complete the Achievement and rewards they can win. Achievements can also be found quickly thanks to a search system.






When an achievement is unlocked (completed), you’ll receive an in-game notification (using the new alert system) telling you that you've unlocked an Achievement.



A small icon then appears above the central medallion; this icon is a button linking to the reward interface.








This interface allows you to control when you collect your rewards. This allows you to avoid awkward situations (for example, winning millions of experience points while leveling a Dragoturkey that only required a few hundred points to hit 100)!

It also reminds you very clearly that you’ve just won loads of rewards, which means two things:

 •    You’re a killer (and a little richer as well)

 •    Devs are very cool, generous people who love you (try to remember this every time you use this interface, thanks!)



Achievement rewards can be redeemed whenever you want (even after logging out) and can’t be lost. All rewards are set by the difficulty of the task and they scale according to the character's level at the time the achievement is unlocked. This means there's no need to wait for your character to reach a higher level before redeeming a reward in the hopes of getting more exp.



We have 4 main Achievement difficulty levels:

    •    Discovery Achievements: they’re in the minority and give small rewards. They mainly concern the first use of an in-game feature (e.g. crushing an item into runes).

    •    Natural Achievements: you can complete them by playing “normally” without specific effort (reaching a level, beating monsters, discovering zones, and so forth).

    •    Epic Achievements: they require commitment and efforts (killing Boss X with two characters in less than 15 turns for example).

    •    Meta Achievements: they reward players for unlocking groups of Achievements (completing all quests in a zone, discovering all zones of the game for example). Meta Achievements can be easy (if the Achievements they concern are easy themselves), or hard (if they contain groups of hard Achievements). Meta Achievements generally require a lot of commitment and a good knowledge and mastery of specific game content.



The Achievements interface has the following major categories:

    •    Dungeons (killing the bosses in various ways, etc.)

    •    Exploration (discovering zones)

    •    Monsters (fighting families of monsters, Dopples, completing challenges, etc.)

    •    Quests (completing quests and quest chains, etc.)

    •    Breeding (obtaining the birth of some mounts, etc.)

    •    Professions (crafting items; reaching a profession level, etc.)

    •    Events (completing the content on Kwismas Island, Vulkania, etc.)



The Kolossium isn’t currently part of the content involved with Achievements at this time. We prefer to improve the availability of battles before offering achievements there, otherwise the main difficulty to unlocking Kolossium achievements could be simply getting a battle.



Achievements are assigned individually to each character (it’s not possible to share Achievements between characters of a same account). This choice was made for technical reasons, primarily because centrally managing the achievements for an account would have required ages of extra development (especially for character migrations).



So, as we've already covered, achievements reward game knowledge, and offer both prizes and new goals for players who may feel that they've completely beaten the game and have nothing left to do. And thanks to progression gauges and targeted achievements, they also help show players content that they may have overlooked or forgotten!






The Pros and Cons of Achievements



The good thing about integrating an achievement system 10 years after they appeared in video games for the first time (please excuse us for the delay), is that we can benefit from our predecessors (without necessarily giving up our pioneer spirit)! During the conception of our Achievements system, we tried to respect the following rules (not without some difficulty) but we believe that we have avoided creating what we call “Unachievablements." Here are some of the principles we tried to follow:



 • No hidden or unknown Achievements: Achievements must be visible to all and their objectives must be clear. Achievements can thus include searching and exploration, but players have to understand what they’re asked to do.

 • Don’t disturb other players’ gaming experience: a player who’s trying to complete an achievement shouldn’t slow down or compromise other players in their team who are trying to achieve their own goals. Battle Achievements are thus treated as Challenges and must be completed by the entire team to be validated.

 • Avoid repetitive actions (in general): Achievements are supposed to be an alternative to “Grinding” and “Farming” (kill the same monsters over and over for example), and therefore shouldn’t reward the killing of 10,000² Arachnees. We see achievements as missions; a player should be able to choose and complete an Achievement without feeling compelled to go through a repetitive and unpleasant task. The only exceptions we allowed in this case were achievements that can be unlocked naturally during the normal progress of a character (completing 1000 Challenges for example).

 • Create achievements that don't depend on chance: the resolution of achievements should be deterministic; players shouldn’t need to count on luck to succeed.

 • Achievable: Ideally, players should be able to complete all the Achievements given enough time; the completion of one achievement shouldn’t compromise completion of another achievement.

 • No undeserved shortcuts: the quickest way to unlock an Achievement should be a noble journey that requires skill. For instance, an Achievement that requires 100 critical hits could be completed quite quickly on a Poutch (no challenge) rather than during interesting battles. This means achievements like this should not be created in the first place.

 • Don't force players to fail or do inherently counter-productive things: Achievements have to include at least one deserving objective (that can sometimes consist of exploration or discovery of a functionality) that enriches the character, even if it is in a small way. For example an achievement that requires 3 critical fails in a row is the perfect example of a "dechievement."



Alternative progress



We want achievements to give players a fun new way to progress through their life's story.

This alternative progression will probably only be an augmentation to more traditional means of progression at first (there's not enough exp in the system at the moment to allow a character to go from level 1 to 200 just by unlocking achievements), but as the game continues to grow (and new achievements are added along with new content) achievements should become a complete alternative to current mean of progression.



Achievements can only be completed once per character (like a non-repeatable quest), which allows us to give level-appropriate rewards while ensuring that players have to give their best and try a large variety of game content to obtain lots of achievement rewards.



The majority of achievements have rewards that scale with a character's level (like most quests), which means that a very high level character will be able to get some rewards from even low-level achievements.



The additional character bonuses will apply to achievement experience rewards, it will thus be very beneficial to complete achievements with secondary characters if you want to have them progress with greater speed.



And let’s not forget that character progress isn’t simply about gaining experience, it is also necessary to give your character some fine “stuff.” That’s why some (but not all) achievements will also give prizes of kamas and resources that should let players obtain or craft equipment.



Rewards:

Unlocking achievements give 5 main types of prizes:

    •    Experience: scaled to the character's level and based on the level of difficulty  

    •    Kamas: a fixed quantity of kamas that depend on the Achievement difficulty.

   •    Resources: Achievements that include monsters or Bosses will allow players to get extra resources from these monsters.

    •    Titles: a few new titles will be available through Meta Achievements.

    •    Ornaments: A new cosmetic reward that allows personalizing the appearance of the character’s name when moused over.







We want the Achievements to bring players a stronger gaming experience that is more accessible and less repetitive than the one that consists of doing the same dungeons and killing the same monsters over and over.



Therefore, finishing a dungeon for the first time will unlock an Achievement that will reward characters with the assurance of obtaining rare resources common to the Boss (making it easier to craft an item).

Extra Achievements (harder ones) for a sole Boss will also reward with rare resources common to the Boss.

It should be possible to win the majority of the items related to a Boss by focusing on the challenge and unlocking all the Achievements related to this Boss.



We also plan on using the Achievements as equipment criteria for future items.





My co… counter is the biggest



What would an Achievement system be without a score? It's beyond anyone's imagination (except Bridget’s maybe).



For every unlocked Achievement, players will receive points that will be collected in a meter which is visible in the Achievement interface.






You’ll have the ability to compare this score with your friends’… But be careful, it won’t be about showing off and being a poser because you bought the latest trendy hat in Asturb Market. The Achievement Score will be the mirror of your knowledge and overall control of the game.  It's simply impossible to have a high score if you haven’t tried and dominated all the game content (quests, breeding, professions, dungeons, etc.).



Some cosmetic or material rewards can only be unlocked if you have a high score.



Retroactivity:

So no doubt you're reading this and getting more and more excited (and maybe seeing tons of kamas and exp in your future), but by now, a nagging question may have arisen in your brain: “Will achievements be attributed retroactively when the 2.9.0 update comes?”

The only achievements that will be retroactively granted when 2.9.0 is released are those that concern the following non-repeatable content:



    •    Quests

    •    Leveling-up a character

    •    Leveling-up a profession



After 2.9.0 update, upon first connection a character will retroactively validate some achievements and will be granted the related rewards. It’s not impossible for some characters to go up a few levels during this operation.



The rest of the Achievements (e.g., those related to the birth of mounts or the completion of a dungeon), can’t be retroactively assigned because their status are not currently recorded in version 2.8.



So yes, this means you’ll have to beat the Royal Pingwin after version 2.9.0 is released in order to unlock the related Achievement, even if you’ve already defeated him 290 times before update 2.9.0.



It’s deeply unfair, but unfortunately that's how it is.



The future



The Achievement system is a new mechanic we wish to include in any future content. There are also some types of content (exploration and professions among other things) that will be handled better in the future.



For version 2.9.0, we’ve already planned more than 600 Achievements. But we won’t stop here; this system concerns every character, no matter their level or activities in the game.



When new achievements are added, you should expect your completion gauges to be updated and decreased. For example, if you’ve completed 100% of the game’s Achievements but new ones are added during an update, your gauge could fall to 90%. This might come as an unpleasant shock, but it’s the simple representation of reality: new content is added and you’ve not explored it yet; under the circumstances it's logical that your completion gauge should undergo a rollback.



The functionality could be improved during the upcoming updates with a better highlight of scores and Achievements that are in the reach of each character (according to their level, zones, and activities for example).



For centuries now, we’ve shared with you our intention to give Dofus eggs to people who deserve them rather than allowing them to continue to drop them willy-nilly. We want to use the Achievement system to serve this goal but we preferred not to offer a Dofus directly as an Achievement reward. We will develop a better means of integration for these precious items. The implementation of the Achievement system is an important step of the process of distribution of old and new Dofus to deserving players.



We’re also currently working with our Web department to integrate a page for Achievements and scores on our websites, attached to each character's personal pages.






Answers to questions that have probably been forming in your brains while you read this article (yes, we're psychic, and yes, we know about that dream you had involving lichen and the gobball in a pink tutu):



When will this system be released?

The Achievement will be available with BETA 2.9.0. The final version of the update 2.9.0 is scheduled for this December.



Why are you making it faster for players to level up?

We believe that in-game progression is still too long and difficult for beginners and players who play with one account and don’t get any help (be it leeching or otherwise) from other high level characters. Achievements don’t directly speed up game progression but offer an alternative and fun way to level your character up if you’re new or prefer to fly solo. We think this alternative will make progressing more pleasant for new players who play in a normal manner (with one account, without knowing the entire game, and without getting important outside help).



I’ve already killed the Royal Gobball 666 times, why do I have to beat it again if I want to win the Royal Gobball achievement?

You skipped the paragraph on retroactivity, which was a very bad thing to do (we've made a note in your permanent file). Please do note that several Achievements can be completed at the same time if you respect the required conditions. You just have to try your luck with the Bosses again to unlock their achievements.



You’re about to destroy the economy of the whole game and universe with your rewards. Don't you care?

We’ll give more rewards with the Achievement system, especially Boss resources, which could see a price decrease. We're aware of this possibility and we believe that it is necessary to allow occasional players (or players who prefer to focus on the difficulty and diversity of actions rather than on Boss “farming&rdquo to win resources that are required to craft items with greater ease. We want to decrease the dependence of casual players on players who generate lots of Boss resources by doing the same dungeons over and over again.



Don’t you ever think of real players? Those who’ve already finished the game 6 times, those who think that Frigost is way too easy and finish all the dungeons in one turn by playing 8 characters?

These players were one of our main concerns when creating the Achievement system. We want to increase the difficulty of some content by offering new challenges and exploring alternative methods to handle the existing content. If you truly are part of the Dofusian elite and not a muppet that got leeched to 200, you’ll even get the opportunity to show it thanks to unlockable cosmetic bonuses.



I love pets and I collect them. Will some Achievements be about pets?

There is an Achievement about pets indeed, but if you like pets, I’d advise you don’t try to complete it. Overall, we didn’t include Achievement related to the collection of pets or items that can be exchanged because this would have given players the possibility to exchange their item collections to quickly complete achievements (this falls under the forbidden development category of achievements that are too easy).



How can I inform my friends when I complete an Achievement?

There is a new option (which is turned on by default) that allows players to receive a message in the chat (with the name of the achievement) when a friend or a guild member unlocks an achievement. Soon, you’ll have new occasions to congratulate your friends and ensure your daily quota of social interactions thanks to a few strategic applications of “GG.”



What will happen if you add new Achievements to dungeons? Will you update the Meta Achievements so they integrate the new Achievements?

We don’t plan on updating Meta Achievements by adding new achievement as extra objectives. We prefer to wait for enough new achievements to create new Meta Achievements.



How much flexiliblity will there be in the achivement system between BETA 2.9.0 and the release? If I suggest an achivement during the beta, can it go into the live release?

The main purpose of the BETA will be to ensure the achievements work well, server performances are good and that attributed rewards are attractive and balanced enough. We won't be able to consider implementing major changes to the achievement system during the BETA phase.



We do plan to add more achievements related to new content in future updates, so if you can think of an achievement that adheres to all of our development goals listed in the article above (achivements must be able to be completed by all players, must not cause players to interfere with others, must not be too easy, must not depend too much on luck, etc), please post them on the suggestions forum! If we like it, you never know, it might show up in a future update.



Is there an Achievement to reward players who are the first of their servers to kill a Boss?

No, and for two reasons: we want all characters to be able to win all the Achievements (given enough time and effort) and we thought that the investment in terms of development time to handle this type of achivement was too much to take compared to the number of characters who could benefit from it.



Is there an achievement for having every profession at level 100?

We want all characters to have the opportunity to win every achievement; therefore, there won’t be achievements that are specific to some professions in the version 2.9.0, because it is impossible to have a single character with all the professions at the same time. We’ll offer Achievements that reward leveling any profession to a specific level. However, we’ll think of solutions to this problem for a future update.



Will alignment quests have their own achivements?

We’re not considering this type of achievements for update 2.9.0, we prefer to wait until we improve and finish them before offering dedicated achievement.



How can I show other players that I’m the best and I completed a lot of Achievements?

Some Meta Achievements offer graphical personalization (through the Ornament or title systems) which gives you the possibility to show off your success. A new command (%su%) allows you to automatically your Achievement point score, as well as the global completion rate (in percentage) in the chat.

 

Do you think you will ever add an Achievement for players to defeat each boss solo?

At the moment, the difficulty for this type of Achievements would vary greatly depending on a player's class, and thus we preferred not to force players to defeat each boss with a single character. However, we’ve prepared Achievements that ask to beat a Boss with two players at maximum and in a limited number of turns. This combination of flexibility and constraint seemed more appropriated to us to allow all classes to win their Achievements, and the addition of the turn limitation puts the focus on battle organization and optimization rather than turtling and gradually wearing a boss down.



Did you think of the use of "disposable” characters accompanied by a powerful character in order to obtain Achievements’ rewards over and over?

Achievements that allow characters to drop resources or items by fighting monsters or Bosses have an extra level objective in order to be completed. Which means that you can complete the main objectives at any level, but you won’t be able to unlock the last one (and thus rewards), unless you reached a minimum level to fight these monsters. This system makes the use of low-level disposable characters to win the Achievements multiple times impossible.



http://www.dofus.com/en/devblog/posts/achievement-system


200
Subscriber Thrower of Barbrossa
* * Member Since 2008-10-25
posté November 22, 2012, 12:12:51 | #2
Thank you Izmar! It looks great!  


19
Schitzo (Rosal)
Former Subscriber Scaraleaf Planter
* Member Since 2012-10-12
posté November 22, 2012, 14:24:21 | #3

Quote (Izmar @ 22 November 2012 12:03) *
completed Frigost before version 1.27 was even released
I think I hurt something from laughing...

Looks awesome, though!


Subscriber Piglet Tracker
* Member Since 2008-06-17
posté November 22, 2012, 14:28:10 | #4
Sounds great, this is a huge boost to solo players or small teams. Spamming some of the higher lvl dungeons is impossible for many, so when just trying to make an item it will be great to use the boss bonus, so maybe one run will be enough to drop the mats needed. yey

Also, more things to do when I just feel like 'pottering' and not doing something 'hardcore'. yey again  


200
Former Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2006-04-10
posté November 22, 2012, 15:48:15 | #5
I like this every time is very nice do important changes on game Here we go! Dofus 2013 (If World not end this 21 dec lol Mayas i hope that u are grong!)


199
Yackul (Rushu)
Myth
Former Subscriber N Devestor
* * * * * Member Since 2006-07-11
posté November 22, 2012, 17:26:42 | #6

Quote
Is there an Achievement to reward players who are the first of their servers to kill a Boss? No, and for two reasons: we want all characters to be able to win all the Achievements (given enough time and effort) and we thought that the investment in terms of development time to handle this type of achivement was too much to take compared to the number of characters who could benefit from it. Add Quote Here

*clap*.

Reading the rest of it....

*clap clap clap clap*.


Well done Ankama. You guys have truly impressed me. You will be seeing me more in-game once this system is released.


*Travis


190
XxKibaxX (Rushu)
Infinite
Former Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2006-04-29
posté November 22, 2012, 18:02:52 | #7
2012: The year of the alternative progression system.

We need more updates like these.


Subscriber Ancestral Treechnid Slogger
* * * * Member Since 2008-12-28
posté November 22, 2012, 19:21:47 | #8
Well this looks promising.

Adds a whole new area to gameplay.


200
Subscriber Moowolf Slicer
* * * * Member Since 2011-09-27
posté November 22, 2012, 20:23:05 | #9
The frigost bosses all have a quest related to them, couldn't the fact that this quest is completed show that the boss had been beaten?


200
Mask-masque (Zatoishwan)
Avarice
Subscriber Great Coralator Polisher
* * * Member Since 2011-03-14
posté November 22, 2012, 21:14:51 | #10
* So much reading, too much for my tiny brain to take in*

Didn't read most of it, I bet you found that out without me telling you, so will the old players get the rewards as soon as they log-in if they have the stuff done ?


199
Yackul (Rushu)
Myth
Former Subscriber N Devestor
* * * * * Member Since 2006-07-11
posté November 22, 2012, 21:19:53 | #11

Quote (2bytwo @ 22 November 2012 21:14) *
* So much reading, too much for my tiny brain to take in*

Didn't read most of it, I bet you found that out without me telling you, so will the old players get the rewards as soon as they log-in if they have the stuff done ?

Only non-repeatable content, such as questing, leveling up, and professions, will be retroactive. Unfortunately, other data, such as how many times you've killed the Royal Gobbal King, isn't stored as of 2.8, so you will have to repeat content such as this.

Once again, good job Ankama. This looks like a definite step in the right direction!

/edit It is definitely worth the read though!


*Travis


This post has been edited by -Travis-- - November 22, 2012, 21:20:14.
200
Mask-masque (Zatoishwan)
Avarice
Subscriber Great Coralator Polisher
* * * Member Since 2011-03-14
posté November 22, 2012, 21:26:55 | #12
Ah ok, thanks for upsetting me ( prepares to do all dungeons again) *sighs*


199
Yackul (Rushu)
Myth
Former Subscriber N Devestor
* * * * * Member Since 2006-07-11
posté November 22, 2012, 22:19:10 | #13

Quote (2bytwo @ 22 November 2012 21:26) *
Ah ok, thanks for upsetting me ( prepares to do all dungeons again) *sighs*

They went ahead and made all the old dungeons much quicker to do, so hopefully it isn't too bad for you! Best of luck once it hits, race you to 100% completion!


*Travis


140
Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2011-12-02
posté November 22, 2012, 22:32:59 | #14
when comming this update?


200
Subscriber Dreggon Breaker
* * Member Since 2011-06-18
posté November 22, 2012, 22:46:53 | #15
Time to prepare to do all the dungeons again ^^ least its simpler with the new dung system


Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2007-01-27
posté November 22, 2012, 22:57:25 | #16
OMG I AM LOVING THIS! WAY TO GO ANKAMA!


Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2009-09-29
posté November 22, 2012, 23:08:19 | #17
Excellent!

Does this mean that it will become a bit more realistic to have a character who refuses to take part in any sort of violence? I've always wanted to create such a character but professions didn't give any character xp and there have been too few battle-free quests.


200
Thunder-Blast (Zatoishwan)
Subscriber Royal Tofu Plucker
* * * Member Since 2008-01-28
posté November 22, 2012, 23:18:35 | #18
"• Don’t disturb other players’ gaming experience: a player who’s trying to complete an achievement shouldn’t slow down or compromise other players in their team who are trying to achieve their own goals. Battle Achievements are thus treated as Challenges and must be completed by the entire team to be validated."

This seems self-contradictory.


Former Subscriber Dreggon Breaker
* * Member Since 2010-12-05
posté November 22, 2012, 23:20:38 | #19
Can't wait or this. Great work guys!


Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2010-01-16
posté November 23, 2012, 02:48:06 | #20
I love it


Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2006-11-04
posté November 23, 2012, 03:20:20 | #21
Amazing! This seems to be /one/ of the best updates so far! I've been waiting for Ankama to come up with something like this for a few years now! I'm so excited! It will definitely make me want to do pvm again!

I can't wait!


Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-01-30
posté November 23, 2012, 06:56:02 | #22
So if you have already done some of these like ent to a place you have to redo them since it hasnt started yet?

went*



Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2007-06-27
posté November 23, 2012, 07:05:05 | #23
Looking forward to this.  


199
Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2008-03-22
posté November 23, 2012, 07:11:09 | #24
Yayy epic! Kinda sad im gonna have to do all dungs again tho :L


136
Former Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2006-09-08
posté November 23, 2012, 08:44:11 | #25
"Ornaments: A new cosmetic reward that allows personalizing the appearance of the character’s name when moused over."

Will we be able to do this whenever we want or do we have to pay ogrines/kamas if we want to change the appearance of our name?


Suggestion: The number of zaaps visited by each character is already recorded and saved so this record can be used to give the achievements related to 'Exploration' so that we do not have run around the Dofus world all over again.


Subscriber Dreggon Breaker
* * Member Since 2011-01-27
posté November 23, 2012, 08:59:33 | #26

Quote (punisherMHF @ 23 November 2012 08:44) *
"Ornaments: A new cosmetic reward that allows personalizing the appearance of the character’s name when moused over."

Will we be able to do this whenever we want or do we have to pay ogrines/kamas if we want to change the appearance of our name?

I'm pretty sure the ability to personalize the character's name is based on achievement system rewards.

It will be like how PvP can reward characters with bigger wings (and higher ranked shields), but achievements cannot be taken away (like rank in PvP).


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 23, 2012, 20:48:34 | #27

Quote
We’ll give more rewards with the Achievement system, especially Boss resources, which could see a price decrease. We're aware of this possibility and we believe that it is necessary to allow occasional players (or players who prefer to focus on the difficulty and diversity of actions rather than on Boss “farming&rdquo to win resources that are required to craft items with greater ease. We want to decrease the dependence of casual players on players who generate lots of Boss resources by doing the same dungeons over and over again
Can you really be that blind? This means markets will crash, prices will go down to nothing, no one will be able to generate kamas and then people will stop buying p2p. You have basically made dungeons worthless in terms of profit for however long it takes this glut of resources to filter their way out.

For example: the rewards per person for CB are 1 Hamate and 10 Tails per person. That means each 8 man team is gonna to dump at least 80 tails into the markets and when you take that into a server wide account you are talking possibly thousands or tens of thousands of tails being dumped into the market. If you think that cutting off the kama supply means people will go back to spending real money for p2p, you guys are gonna be in for a rude surprise.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - November 23, 2012, 20:55:45.
190
XxKibaxX (Rushu)
Infinite
Former Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2006-04-29
posté November 23, 2012, 20:59:42 | #28

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 20:48) *

Quote
We’ll give more rewards with the Achievement system, especially Boss resources, which could see a price decrease. We're aware of this possibility and we believe that it is necessary to allow occasional players (or players who prefer to focus on the difficulty and diversity of actions rather than on Boss “farming&rdquo to win resources that are required to craft items with greater ease. We want to decrease the dependence of casual players on players who generate lots of Boss resources by doing the same dungeons over and over again
Can you really be that blind? This means markets will crash, prices will go down to nothing, no one will be able to generate kamas and then people will stop buying p2p. Is my logic wrong?


The achievement bonuses are only granted once. After that, they can never be gained again. The markets will experience a hit at the very start of the new version, but will normalize once the extra influx has been consumed. Once everyone has gone through their extra bonus, the people that only did Frig2 dungeons for that achievement will continue on their merry way not grinding those dungeons, and Frig2 grinders will continue on their merry way grinding the resources still. The short term will be a mess, but the long term will be complete normalcy.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 23, 2012, 21:03:06 | #29

Quote (InuzukaKiba @ 23 November 2012 20:59) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 20:48) *

Quote
We’ll give more rewards with the Achievement system, especially Boss resources, which could see a price decrease. We're aware of this possibility and we believe that it is necessary to allow occasional players (or players who prefer to focus on the difficulty and diversity of actions rather than on Boss “farming&rdquo to win resources that are required to craft items with greater ease. We want to decrease the dependence of casual players on players who generate lots of Boss resources by doing the same dungeons over and over again
Can you really be that blind? This means markets will crash, prices will go down to nothing, no one will be able to generate kamas and then people will stop buying p2p. Is my logic wrong?


The achievement bonuses are only granted once. After that, they can never be gained again. The markets will experience a hit at the very start of the new version, but will normalize once the extra influx has been consumed. Once everyone has gone through their extra bonus, the people that only did Frig2 dungeons for that achievement will continue on their merry way not grinding those dungeons, and Frig2 grinders will continue on their merry way grinding the resources still. The short term will be a mess, but the long term will be complete normalcy.
Yes, but how long will the short term be? 3 months is more than enough to cripple a server. People who are sitting on hundreds of millions of kamas will be fine, but most people are not anywhere near that and sometimes rely on the few millions they can make each week to p2p their characters, and for a while these types will be SoL.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - November 23, 2012, 21:06:32.
F2P Member Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2012-09-11
posté November 23, 2012, 21:12:02 | #30

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 21:03) *

Quote (InuzukaKiba @ 23 November 2012 20:59) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 20:48) *

Quote
We’ll give more rewards with the Achievement system, especially Boss resources, which could see a price decrease. We're aware of this possibility and we believe that it is necessary to allow occasional players (or players who prefer to focus on the difficulty and diversity of actions rather than on Boss “farming&rdquo to win resources that are required to craft items with greater ease. We want to decrease the dependence of casual players on players who generate lots of Boss resources by doing the same dungeons over and over again
Can you really be that blind? This means markets will crash, prices will go down to nothing, no one will be able to generate kamas and then people will stop buying p2p. Is my logic wrong?


The achievement bonuses are only granted once. After that, they can never be gained again. The markets will experience a hit at the very start of the new version, but will normalize once the extra influx has been consumed. Once everyone has gone through their extra bonus, the people that only did Frig2 dungeons for that achievement will continue on their merry way not grinding those dungeons, and Frig2 grinders will continue on their merry way grinding the resources still. The short term will be a mess, but the long term will be complete normalcy.
Yes, but how long will the short term be? 3 months is more than enough to cripple a server. People who are sitting on hundreds of millions of kamas will be fine, but most people are not anywhere near that and sometimes rely on the few millions they can make each week to p2p their characters, and for a while these types will be SoL.
Tbh all I see is the insecurity of someone who runs 8 accounts realizing they might not have an exclusive monopoly anymore. If I was able to make a few million kamas every week, I have even less right to complain much. It costs around 1-1.5mk per month of p2p. If I only make 1-2mk per week, I dont have much to complain about because I'm already sustaining my p2p with a decent chunk of "spending money" as well. Besides, the achievements might give enough boss resources to craft ONE piece of that respective equipment type, not an entire set, let alone provide every single material required.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 23, 2012, 21:18:36 | #31

Quote (Digitized @ 23 November 2012 21:12) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 21:03) *

Quote (InuzukaKiba @ 23 November 2012 20:59) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 20:48) *

Quote
We’ll give more rewards with the Achievement system, especially Boss resources, which could see a price decrease. We're aware of this possibility and we believe that it is necessary to allow occasional players (or players who prefer to focus on the difficulty and diversity of actions rather than on Boss “farming&rdquo to win resources that are required to craft items with greater ease. We want to decrease the dependence of casual players on players who generate lots of Boss resources by doing the same dungeons over and over again
Can you really be that blind? This means markets will crash, prices will go down to nothing, no one will be able to generate kamas and then people will stop buying p2p. Is my logic wrong?


The achievement bonuses are only granted once. After that, they can never be gained again. The markets will experience a hit at the very start of the new version, but will normalize once the extra influx has been consumed. Once everyone has gone through their extra bonus, the people that only did Frig2 dungeons for that achievement will continue on their merry way not grinding those dungeons, and Frig2 grinders will continue on their merry way grinding the resources still. The short term will be a mess, but the long term will be complete normalcy.
Yes, but how long will the short term be? 3 months is more than enough to cripple a server. People who are sitting on hundreds of millions of kamas will be fine, but most people are not anywhere near that and sometimes rely on the few millions they can make each week to p2p their characters, and for a while these types will be SoL.
Tbh all I see is the insecurity of someone who runs 8 accounts realizing they might not have an exclusive monopoly anymore. If I was able to make a few million kamas every week, I have even less right to complain much. It costs around 1-1.5mk per month of p2p. If I only make 1-2mk per week, I dont have much to complain about because I'm already sustaining my p2p with a decent chunk of "spending money" as well. Besides, the achievements might give enough boss resources to craft ONE piece of that respective equipment type, not an entire set, let alone provide every single material required.
For myself no, I already have enough money put away that I don't worry about things like this. But I know some people who play on Solar who are going to be devastated by this, and I am not so stuck up that I don't look anywhere past myself.

Solar ogrines are 245kk per 700 right now. So 2mk a week for p2p and 8mk a month.

If it turns out that it doesn't go down like this then I will be the first to say I overreacted, but I don't think it is an overreaction.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - November 23, 2012, 21:25:31.
190
Bosston (Rushu)
Subscriber Ouginak Torturer
* Member Since 2009-10-06
posté November 23, 2012, 21:20:28 | #32
The only part I disagree with is when he said that they still think leveling is too hard for some players. Honestly , I think this is insane. With all the xp bonuses people get nowadays , leveling is a peace of cake.


190
XxKibaxX (Rushu)
Infinite
Former Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2006-04-29
posté November 23, 2012, 21:27:15 | #33

Quote (MrFlamez @ 23 November 2012 21:20) *
The only part I disagree with is when he said that they still think leveling is too hard for some players. Honestly , I think this is insane. With all the xp bonuses people get nowadays , leveling is a peace of cake.


I'm one of the targets of the Almanax and Achievement updates. I could gather up a group and grind on stuff constantly, which I do from time to time, but I just don't have that drive to do it enough to just whiz up the levels quickly. On top of that, I rarely have time these days to do that kind of thing. The alternative leveling systems they've given us are a welcome addition to the casual player, allowing us to have a sense of progression. For the hardcore leveler, these bonuses are but a drop in the bucket of experience they're bringing in all the time.


Former Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2006-06-29
posté November 23, 2012, 21:31:37 | #34

Quote (punisherMHF @ 23 November 2012 08:44) *
"Ornaments: A new cosmetic reward that allows personalizing the appearance of the character’s name when moused over."

Will we be able to do this whenever we want or do we have to pay ogrines/kamas if we want to change the appearance of our name?


Suggestion: The number of zaaps visited by each character is already recorded and saved so this record can be used to give the achievements related to 'Exploration' so that we do not have run around the Dofus world all over again.
Actually, there's a whole thread about it here.

It basically will work like Wakfu. You complete "achievements" (which are like one-time quests) and then you get a reward. You do all of those in a group, and you'll get the ornament which you can control when it's displayed.

Titles will now be stored, so once you equip something with a title, it will be stored so you can display it if you want. There will likely be a limit to the number of titles that can be displayed.


F2P Member Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2012-09-11
posté November 23, 2012, 22:54:00 | #35

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 21:18) *
For myself no, I already have enough money put away that I don't worry about things like this. But I know some people who play on Solar who are going to be devastated by this, and I am not so stuck up that I don't look anywhere past myself.

Solar ogrines are 245kk per 700 right now. So 2mk a week for p2p and 8mk a month.

If it turns out that it doesn't go down like this then I will be the first to say I overreacted, but I don't think it is an overreaction.
Your math is a bit off. If it's ~250kk for a week of p2p, it's JUST over 1mk per month. Now, if you're talking about subscribing a full 8 accounts, then yea, your math would be right, however, someone who runs 8 accounts is more than capable of making the necessary money within a week, especially if they pay attention to the market.

Quite frankly, you're overreacting already, because no one knows the exact materials being given outside of what we see in the screenshots. Combine it with the fact that you're only getting that reward once, especially with the level requirements, it's overreacting.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 23, 2012, 23:38:45 | #36
10 Tails + 1 Hamate per person. So that means I will get at least 16 Hamates and 160 Tails alone if I do that on all of my characters. On top of what I already get from doing the dungeon itself. That is a massive influx, especially for a smaller economy like Solar or Shika.

So I guess we will wait and see what happens.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - November 23, 2012, 23:45:18.
136
Former Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2006-09-08
posté November 24, 2012, 11:43:58 | #37

Quote (Lagirdam @ 23 November 2012 21:31) *

Quote (punisherMHF @ 23 November 2012 08:44) *
"Ornaments: A new cosmetic reward that allows personalizing the appearance of the character’s name when moused over."

Will we be able to do this whenever we want or do we have to pay ogrines/kamas if we want to change the appearance of our name?


Suggestion: The number of zaaps visited by each character is already recorded and saved so this record can be used to give the achievements related to 'Exploration' so that we do not have run around the Dofus world all over again.
Actually, there's a whole thread about it here.

It basically will work like Wakfu. You complete "achievements" (which are like one-time quests) and then you get a reward. You do all of those in a group, and you'll get the ornament which you can control when it's displayed.

Titles will now be stored, so once you equip something with a title, it will be stored so you can display it if you want. There will likely be a limit to the number of titles that can be displayed.
Thank you; I understand now  


200
Myjoeky (Dark Vlad)
Espadas
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2011-01-16
posté November 24, 2012, 12:22:52 | #38
Finally a good update! This should motivate people to do more quests and dungeons.
Except for the toad nerf on the osa's.... thats horrible.


F2P Member Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2012-09-11
posté November 24, 2012, 16:00:01 | #39

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 23:38) *
10 Tails + 1 Hamate per person. So that means I will get at least 16 Hamates and 160 Tails alone if I do that on all of my characters. On top of what I already get from doing the dungeon itself. That is a massive influx, especially for a smaller economy like Solar or Shika.

So I guess we will wait and see what happens.
Keep in mind people have to be able to complete the achievement in the first place, so unless you're able to run those dungeons confidently, it's only going to be those that run multiple accounts, or have several high level friends, that will complete some of the more difficult dungeon/monster achievements. The people that power the supply now are pretty much the only people that'll be able to do the achievement.


Subscriber Larva
* Member Since 2012-03-01
posté November 24, 2012, 22:13:18 | #40
When is 2.9 update coming?

oh nvm


200
Rebound (Dark Vlad)
Inspired
Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-03-28
posté November 25, 2012, 17:37:56 | #41
I like it, it will be alot easier to craft items. Unfortunately for once


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 25, 2012, 21:22:10 | #42

Quote (Digitized @ 24 November 2012 16:00) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 23:38) *
10 Tails + 1 Hamate per person. So that means I will get at least 16 Hamates and 160 Tails alone if I do that on all of my characters. On top of what I already get from doing the dungeon itself. That is a massive influx, especially for a smaller economy like Solar or Shika.

So I guess we will wait and see what happens.
Keep in mind people have to be able to complete the achievement in the first place, so unless you're able to run those dungeons confidently, it's only going to be those that run multiple accounts, or have several high level friends, that will complete some of the more difficult dungeon/monster achievements. The people that power the supply now are pretty much the only people that'll be able to do the achievement.
Seems there are 5 different achievements for each person at each dungeon. So 50 tails and 5 hamates per char, and that adds up to 80 hamates and 800 tails. Still think it is overreacting?


Former Subscriber Kami Snowfoux Kuddler
* * * * * Member Since 2009-03-26
posté November 25, 2012, 21:45:09 | #43
How awesome would an achievements for a turquoise dofus be?


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 25, 2012, 21:48:28 | #44

Quote (XehanordHeartless @ 25 November 2012 21:45) *
How awesome would an achievements for a turquoise dofus be?
Not that awesome, there are tons of turquoise dofuses floating around already.


Subscriber Piglet Tracker
* Member Since 2007-12-21
posté November 25, 2012, 21:52:17 | #45
Does that include the Glitch monster "0HP" which I still have as a soul. or the bugged "Undefined, Undefined" Map I go to get away from aggressors.
Sorry, but I already went 1 - 200 without using scrolls or getting help to do it.
But it was worth it.


F2P Member Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2012-09-11
posté November 25, 2012, 22:59:12 | #46

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 25 November 2012 21:22) *

Quote (Digitized @ 24 November 2012 16:00) *

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 23 November 2012 23:38) *
10 Tails + 1 Hamate per person. So that means I will get at least 16 Hamates and 160 Tails alone if I do that on all of my characters. On top of what I already get from doing the dungeon itself. That is a massive influx, especially for a smaller economy like Solar or Shika.

So I guess we will wait and see what happens.
Keep in mind people have to be able to complete the achievement in the first place, so unless you're able to run those dungeons confidently, it's only going to be those that run multiple accounts, or have several high level friends, that will complete some of the more difficult dungeon/monster achievements. The people that power the supply now are pretty much the only people that'll be able to do the achievement.
Seems there are 5 different achievements for each person at each dungeon. So 50 tails and 5 hamates per char, and that adds up to 80 hamates and 800 tails. Still think it is overreacting?
First, does each achievement per dungeon give the same reward? Two; the following is the math you're using:
800/50=sixteen accounts

Yea, overreacting revil. Unless running 16 accounts as a multiclienter suddenly became an affordable norm.


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté November 25, 2012, 23:07:30 | #47
Each achievement seems to give the same reward yes, and none of them seem to be very difficult to complete either. By myself that is 800 tails, and there are several other 8 man teams in my guild alone, which is another 800 tails, 1600 tails from 3 people. That has to be enough there to feed a smaller server like Solars demand for at least 2 or 3 months, obtained in conceivably a day. One time deal or not, that is nothing to sneeze at.

The more that comes out, the worse this continues to sound.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - November 25, 2012, 23:11:04.
Disgusted and Offended Thrower of Barbrossa
* * Member Since 2011-08-23
posté November 26, 2012, 18:48:58 | #48
Revil makes some good points. And, it seems entirely possible, if not outright probable, that, as usual, someone will find a way to fudge the system and crash/outright own the markets. Dedicated young players are forever a step or three ahead of the developers. That being said, for newer players this is a boon of magnificent proportion.

As another who went from 0-200 without a leech or a daily Almanax, etc., I applaud Dofus for trying to lessen the tedium. Let's hope it works as intended.


Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2007-05-29
posté November 28, 2012, 21:36:26 | #49
The achievement system itself sounds great, but despite the benefit from predecessors, some of the specifics seem dodgy.

Quote (Izmar @ 22 November 2012 12:03) *
• Highlight difficulty and reward challenge and risk-taking: some Achievements require a lot of organization, training, and thoroughness. Players will be rewarded for their commitment.
[...]
• Create achievements that don't depend on chance: the resolution of achievements should be deterministic; players shouldn’t need to count on luck to succeed.

These points contradict one another. By definition, taking a risk is exposing yourself to a chance of failure. In effect, you're counting on luck to complete these achievements (otherwise there would be no risk). Obviously, getting an achievement that rewards taking risk cannot also have a deterministic resolution.

Also, I'd like to point out that dropping the special items on Frigost that start a quest is very much dependent on chance.


Quote (Izmar @ 22 November 2012 12:03) *
All rewards are set by the difficulty of the task and they scale according to the character's level at the time the achievement is unlocked. This means there's no need to wait for your character to reach a higher level before redeeming a reward in the hopes of getting more exp.

Instead, this system encourages people to wait for their character to reach a higher level before unlocking a reward to get more experience out of it. Ironically, this could even cause people to postpone exploring the game and running new dungeons.


Quote (Izmar @ 22 November 2012 12:03) *
• Don’t disturb other players’ gaming experience: a player who’s trying to complete an achievement shouldn’t slow down or compromise other players in their team who are trying to achieve their own goals. Battle Achievements are thus treated as Challenges and must be completed by the entire team to be validated.
That's a contradiction, as Liquid-Flame also pointed out. Players can only complete the battle achievement if the entire team compromises themselves. And since achievements can only be obtained once, why would anyone who has already completed a certain battle achievement be interested in trying to do it again for someone else? Especially when the achievement rewards risk-taking, why would you take the risk if there is no reward in it any more?


Quote (Izmar @ 22 November 2012 12:03) *
• Avoid repetitive actions (in general): Achievements are supposed to be an alternative to “Grinding” and “Farming” (kill the same monsters over and over for example), and therefore shouldn’t reward the killing of 10,000² Arachnees. We see achievements as missions; a player should be able to choose and complete an Achievement without feeling compelled to go through a repetitive and unpleasant task. The only exceptions we allowed in this case were achievements that can be unlocked naturally during the normal progress of a character (completing 1000 Challenges for example).
I would not call an achievement to breed 1000 mounts an achievement that is unlocked naturally during the normal progress of a character. In fact, if you want to get this achievement faster than the Almanax quest (< 365 days), you should get 3 new mounts every day for a whole year. And since everyone should be able to choose and complete an achievement, what are you going to do with these 1000 mounts? You can't use them (you can't even hold them in your shed), can't sell them (unless >99% of the people doesn't get the achievement), and there are too many to exchange for characteristics scrolls. Isn't this just grinding dragoturkey breeding?

The same goes for completing "Fight Club" 150 times, which can be completed at most once per week. That is, it takes at least 150 weeks (almost 3 years) to complete for a level 50+ player that can kill the fight club monsters.


Quote (Izmar @ 22 November 2012 12:03) *
• Don't force players to fail or do inherently counter-productive things: Achievements have to include at least one deserving objective (that can sometimes consist of exploration or discovery of a functionality) that enriches the character, even if it is in a small way. For example an achievement that requires 3 critical fails in a row is the perfect example of a "dechievement."
It's hard to classify crushing a bow meow in a crusher as a "deserving objective", and I'd even say this was counter-productive. The same can be said for freeing or castrating a dragoturkey, both of which are given an achievement as well.


Subscriber Dreggon Breaker
* * Member Since 2005-10-31
posté November 29, 2012, 00:25:52 | #50
Hello Izmar,


I've been suggesting an achievemnt system for years, I'm really excited to see this coming thanks!