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Iop Balancing in 2.8

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Head DOFUS Developer Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2003-11-07
posté August 29, 2012, 16:55:08 | #1
Iop Balancing in 2.8 In the 2.8.0 update, we’ve decided to focus on the Iop class. We have been working for a while on some new concepts for this class, because overall, Iop gameplay has not changed much since DOFUS was originally released, and has generally lacked depth.

 

Overall, we do consider the Iop class to be balanced, both in PvP and PvM at nearly all levels. However, many of this class’s spells are rather redundant and the class is missing significant tactical options that will allow talented players to stand out based on the quality of their tactical planning.

We are not looking to greatly increase the power of the Iop class, our primary goal with these changes is to make the class more interesting to play and to differentiate them from the roles of other classes.

Here’s a list of what we want to achieve with these changes:

  • Delete duplicate spells (mostly damage bonus spells)

  • Give the class more “punch”

  • Better define the Iop’s “Glass Cannon” role of low resistance (and high exposure) offset by significant damage when played correctly.

  • Better define the Iop’s “Targeting” role (currently supported by Brokle) to incourage allies to focus their attention on targets chosen by the team’s Iop.

  • Better define the Iop’s “Finisher” role (currently supported by Wrath, which becomes more dangerous as the fight reaches its climax).

  • Improve how spells are distributed to Iops as they gain levels.


 

We will include a detailed list of all the adjustments to the Iop class in the 2.8.0 Beta Changelog. We are publishing this devblog to explain our intentions for the class and the general direction without going into exhaustive detail about the changes (which may evolve during the Beta period). All this is to say that this article is not an exhaustive list of Iop modifications.

 

As many Iop spells have been changed, all Iop spell points will be returned with this update. However, we will not distribute Magical Orbs this update, because we have not made significant changes to the base theme of the class.

 

Replacing Duplicate Spells


Giving the Iop class several  spells that “simply increased damage” can be seen as useful, but these spells have a very limited tactical interest and could stand to be replaced with spells that are much more interesting and impressive. We are retaining only two spells of this type, Power and Divine Sword (which have both been augmented) in order to give a %damage boost and a fixed +damage bonus, respectively. (Please note: spell names are temporary placeholders and may change with the final release of 2.8)

 

Compulsion: This spell has been replaced with a new spell, Duel. This spell uses undodgable MP removal to take 10 MP from the target (1 turn) and the caster (2 turns). This spell also applies the Gravity state to the target (1 turn) and the caster (2 turns). The spell does damage based on Erosion damage that the target has taken. This spell makes it easier to isolate a target, but requires the caster to make themselves vulnerable at the same time. It also becomes more interesting later in the fight, when the enemy team has taken more Erosion damage.






 



Bravery Guide:  This spell has been replaced with a new spell, Poutch. When the target of this spell receives damage from spells, they will take an additional 20% splash damage in a 1-square cross that also damages those who are standing next to the target. This allows for a tactical bonus when used on enemies who are grouped.







Increase: This spell has been replaced with a new spell, Friction. When a target affected by this spell takes damage from a spell cast on them, they move one square closer to the attacker (if they are lined up). So this spell can be used to draw in enemies who are on the same linear row as the Iop by attacking them with spells. This allows the Iop to have some ability to adjust the placement of enemies and allies.

 







Mutilation: This spell has been replaced by a new spell, Precipitation. This spell allows augmentation to the target’s AP for 1 turn, but the same amount of AP is removed from the target on the next turn. Using this spell places the target in a state that disallows the use of weapons or Iop’s Wrath for 1 turn. This spell makes it possible for a Iop to significantly increase their firepower for a single turn, with the downside of a reduction in ability for the next turn. This tradeoff may allow the Iop to complete a difficult maneuver or combine some important actions within the same turn.



We have compensated for the reduction in damage augmentation spells by increasing the damage of some Iop offensive spells (including those spells in the Earth and Neutral elements that benefitted from the old version of Mutiliation).

 


Giving the class an extra "umph"


We wanted the class to be more "dangerous" so that it can have a cyclic power, alternating between turns where the class is very dangerous and turns where it isn't. In combat, an Iop and its opponents should take into account these phases if they want to play effectively! Integrating more significant phases of power in the Iop's game play brings more momentum to the class and encourages players (the Iop as well as its enemies) to vary their strategy during each turn of a fight.



•    Sword of Fate: the spell has been changed and it now causes Fire damage at short range, only castable every two turns, but has a bonus damage dealt on the second turn. The spell also causes additional damages based on the eroded HP (HP lost by erosion) of the target. So this is a spell that works in a similar way to Iop's Wrath, but in a different element, with a much lower charging duration (2 turns), and lower damages.

 

•    Power: the spell bonus has been increased, with a shorter duration. The objective is to provide a bonus to damages in a wayto make its casting significant, all the while offering a shorter duration to the spell. The old version of the spell did not provide a damage bonus that made enough of a difference for the Iop enemies to change their strategy when the spell was active. In addition, the spell generally lasted the entire fight and didn't really bring much more power to the Iop during combat.

 

•    The new Precipitation spell also allows for the creation of much more powerful game phases for Iops, by increasing their AP temporarily.



Reinforcing their "Glass Cannon" role:


The different damage increases on offensive spells and the addition of spells like Precipitation, Duel or Sword of Fate (which incite the Iop to expose itself in exchange for a greater offensive potential), contribute to the strengthening of the "Glass Cannon" role (low resistance compensated by significant damage potential) that we want to reinforce for the Iop class.



However, we changed the Vitality spell by reducing its duration and its cooldown so that an Iop who wishes to focus on the damage is more vulnerable, and so that an Iop wanting to protect itself more effectively in combat can do so at the expense of more offensive potential (by having to recast the spell more often).

This is a counterbalance that seems necessary as the offensive potential of the Iop is greatly increased with this update.




Reinforcing their "Focus/Targeter" role:






This role was already present thanks to Brokle, which encouraged allies to focus on the same target when the spell was active. But we want this role to be more pronounced, where an effective team that includes an Iop becomes a team that is organized and that the Iop can take the responsibility of designating priority targets.

New spells such as Poutch and Friction reinforce this role by allowing respectively to increase damages dealt to enemies and to attract targeted enemies for the whole team.




Reinforcing their “Finisher” role:


This role was already partially provided by Iop's Wrath, making a Strength Iop very dangerous at the end of the fight and forcing enemies to take into account the actions of the Iop at the risk of losing a player.

Duel and Sword of Fate reinforce this role by introducing damages that scale with the target's eroded health (permanently lost due to Erosion). The efficiency of these spells increases with the progression of a battle.




Improving the distribution of new spells across levels:


The order of elemental spell acquisition was not optimal, with (among other things) a majority of Earth spells at high level. We also tried to improve the distribution of spell acquisition across levels in order to place the more challenging spells at higher levels.

 

  • Duel is now obtained at level 36.

  • Sword of fate is now obtained at level 90.

  • Friction is now obtained at level 31.

  • Destructive Sword is now obtained at level 9.

  • Blow is now obtained at level 17.

  • Vitality is now obtained at level 3.

  • Concentration is now obtained at level 21.

  • Sword of Iop is now obtained at level 80.


 

These level changes will be applied retroactively, certain spells will therefore be forgotten automatically (and spell points invested returned) if the character does not have the level required  for the spell and other spells are learned automatically if the character has the required level to use them.




Conclusion :


You will be able to test the changes in the 2.8.0 BETA and we hope they will give a lot more tactical potential to the class, making the Iop play more dynamic, diverse, and a lot more fun and interesting.

Be careful though, as the addition of these new spells and unique effects requires some time to adapt as well as some practice. You'll probably need numerous battles before you can take full advantage of this new potential. As such, we recommend that you consider this important aspect before telling us that the Iop has become much too weak due to these changes!

http://www.dofus.com/en/devblog/posts/iop-balancing-2-8


Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2007-09-06
posté August 29, 2012, 17:53:10 | #2
Please, do something special with Osa's >


Subscriber Larva
* Member Since 2011-06-07
posté August 29, 2012, 17:54:16 | #3
Oh my god...


Former Subscriber Moopet Master
* * Member Since 2008-03-29
posté August 29, 2012, 17:58:15 | #4
Iops sounds interesting now i might maka one to team up with my osa!!!


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté August 29, 2012, 18:02:45 | #5
A few notes:

Most end game Iops don't use boost spells anyway, so it was nice to see them changed, but really these new gimmick spells you have added are not the answer.

Adding this change to Mutilation, stupid to begin with as there was nothing wrong with the spell, and then making it so you can't cast wrath or use a weapon just gives you another spell that most people won't bother with.

Speaking frankly, I see a lot of these possibly being useful in a PvP fight, but just looking over these changes I don't see any of these spells even making my Iops spell bar. Is it too much to ask to just have some straightforward spells for once that are without gimmicks or conditions?

This doesn't weaken or strengthen the Iop, just makes them more like a Rogue or a Fogger in that their spells are starting to have hoops you have to jump thru to use them.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - August 29, 2012, 18:04:41.
Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2011-12-22
posté August 29, 2012, 18:09:07 | #6
Are only iops going to be changed in 2.8?:/


Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté August 29, 2012, 18:09:51 | #7
No, you can read some of the other supposed changes on JoL. Iops are just going to be the major change.


Subscriber Ancestral Treechnid Slogger
* * * * Member Since 2007-06-11
posté August 29, 2012, 18:18:14 | #8
Oh my... the Iop class has been my "Main" since day one, and I am REALLY nervous about such an overhaul. Even reading it all, I don't think I completely understand them all. I have to say, 1 move I'm really sad about losing (at least I THINK I'm losing it), is my mutilation spell... I used that almost every turn, and was a BIG factor in my making sure I always have at least 10AP. Bravery Guide is one I have maxed too, to buff my whole team... am I reading it right that this is changing/leaving too?

So many changes all at once... this will either be amazing (after learning them all) or a catastraphy.

Very Scared,
Benjamight


199
Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2008-04-04
posté August 29, 2012, 18:20:56 | #9
This will no doubt make the class more tactical which in my opinion is better than just having a class that is only good at running in sword swinging


This post has been edited by Jgibbo - August 29, 2012, 18:21:25.
Former Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2011-12-23
posté August 29, 2012, 18:27:17 | #10
Thats Awesome, But When Will Be News About Cras ?? Or Srams ???


200
Krypyonite (Spiritia)
Os Faganhos
Former Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2011-08-29
posté August 29, 2012, 18:27:43 | #11
c'mon, really? , one of the most used spells , the mutilation, will be totaly changed for what? i can borrow 4 ap but i cant use weapons or wrath? , really?


193
Azula (Rosal)
Platinum
Former Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2009-05-30
posté August 29, 2012, 18:33:08 | #12
Aint this awesome?!
I can't tell how much I love these changes, and to aply them in some certain dungeons.
The state that you can't use Wrath isnt that big deal, just don't cast it or be sure that your cooldown is over before the state. Anyway, the compensation of Wrath can be made with other spells/weapon. For example if I had 8 AP as a Iop I could use my thunderbuff hammer x3 (hits are about 800-1200) imagine that x3.

I really can't wait to test this out, and I should consider to be omni!

-Yen.


Subscriber Soft Oak Skinner
* * * * * Member Since 2006-08-07
posté August 29, 2012, 18:33:22 | #13
This is... very different from the "leaked" list of changes that were flying around a couple of days ago, the ones that had people were screaming "NERF! IOPS RUINED FOREVER!"

This is pretty much nothing but offensive and utility buffs, providing lots of new strategies for a previously one-note class, but definitely making themselves vulnerable to do so. The biggest losses may be Mutiliation and the shorter duration of Power. (As for the "problem" of not being able to Wrath when under the effects of New-Mutilation, all you have to do is not use Mutilation during that one turn when Wrath is at full power)

There's a deliberate emphasis on various Iop "roles" in this change, where choosing to focus on one thing weakens the Iops in other areas. (If you want to be more defensive, then you have to cast Vitality a lot and lose opportunities for attacks. If you want to focus on one enemy, you make yourself more vulnerable to attacks from that enemy. And so on)

The rearranging of spells is nice, too. Getting Concentration and Vitality at a much lower level will make things easier for up-and-coming Iops.

... I think I want to make a Iop in 2.8, just to try these changes out.


This post has been edited by Schmendrick - August 29, 2012, 18:35:13.
Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2007-01-12
posté August 29, 2012, 18:34:07 | #14
My main char is Iop, but i agree that osamodas needs a very big upgrade


193
Azula (Rosal)
Platinum
Former Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2009-05-30
posté August 29, 2012, 18:39:26 | #15

Quote (PoisonLT @ 29 August 2012 18:34) *
My main char is Iop, but i agree that osamodas needs a very big upgrade
Just a small, very small reminder, this thread is about Iop Balancing in 2.8. Not about Osamodas or whatever other class.

-Yen.


Quote (Jgibbo @ 29 August 2012 18:20) *
This will no doubt make the class more tactical which in my opinion is better than just having a class that is only good at running in sword swinging
That is so true! Im looking forward to these new changes in the BETA version!


-Yen.


Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2006-01-07
posté August 29, 2012, 18:42:01 | #16
Make changes on Pandawa class for a change. Change Wrath in to a buff, not a change of state spell. Its only fair, cra has powerful shooting, iop has wrath. why cant pandawas have a power booster? They have Boozer as a defensive buff spell plus lose 1 mp. so make the playing field a little fair. enough said.


193
Azula (Rosal)
Platinum
Former Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2009-05-30
posté August 29, 2012, 18:42:38 | #17

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 29 August 2012 18:02) *
A few notes:

Most end game Iops don't use boost spells anyway, so it was nice to see them changed, but really these new gimmick spells you have added are not the answer.

Adding this change to Mutilation, stupid to begin with as there was nothing wrong with the spell, and then making it so you can't cast wrath or use a weapon just gives you another spell that most people won't bother with.

Speaking frankly, I see a lot of these possibly being useful in a PvP fight, but just looking over these changes I don't see any of these spells even making my Iops spell bar. Is it too much to ask to just have some straightforward spells for once that are without gimmicks or conditions?

This doesn't weaken or strengthen the Iop, just makes them more like a Rogue or a Fogger in that their spells are starting to have hoops you have to jump thru to use them.
Can't some people just for once, be happy with the changes? Or atleast say something useful? Im pretty sure Ankama won't do anything about the fact that you said they look like Rogues or Foggernauts (just because they don't).

I will defenitely use Multilation in 2.8 but I'll be more careful for my Wrath and either way cast it before or after Mutilation.


-Yen.

NOTE: Don't take this as something offensive, 'cause it's not meant to be taken offensive.


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2010-05-13
posté August 29, 2012, 18:43:58 | #18
I love pretty much all the changes - looks like Iop's will finally be a bit more interesting!!


193
Azula (Rosal)
Platinum
Former Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2009-05-30
posté August 29, 2012, 18:44:15 | #19

Quote (Lilscooby @ 29 August 2012 18:42) *
Make changes on Pandawa class for a change. Change Wrath in to a buff, not a change of state spell. Its only fair, cra has powerful shooting, iop has wrath. why cant pandawas have a power booster? They have Boozer as a defensive buff spell plus lose 1 mp. so make the playing field a little fair. enough said.
And that's why the DOFUS classes are so different from each other. Pandawas are good in Map manipulation, Iops are good in dealing damage and Eni's (should be, or not) good in healing. I would be very surprised to see a Eni cast a wrath likely spell.



-Yen.


Former Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2011-08-14
posté August 29, 2012, 18:49:29 | #20
guys masq need to be buffed!



Subscriber Soft Oak Skinner
* * * * * Member Since 2006-08-07
posté August 29, 2012, 18:53:14 | #21

Quote (Lilscooby @ 29 August 2012 18:42) *
Make changes on Pandawa class for a change. Change Wrath in to a buff, not a change of state spell. Its only fair, cra has powerful shooting, iop has wrath. why cant pandawas have a power booster? They have Boozer as a defensive buff spell plus lose 1 mp. so make the playing field a little fair. enough said.

Wrath of Zatoishwan is both a buff and a change of state spell. You don't consider +200% Power, +15 Damage, and +11 Critical Hits to be a power booster? That's how Pandawas work. You can either be drunk, and better at close-range fighting (which is, in turn, subdivided into a choice of offensive boosts or defensive boosts) and utility spells, or sober, and better at map manipulation, resistance debuffing, and long-range fighting. It's a class whose roles are already pretty well-defined.

Anyway, this topic is about upcoming Iop changes, not a wishlist of other classes that people want changed. (This topic is certainly not a complete list of all changes in 2.8)


This post has been edited by Schmendrick - August 29, 2012, 18:58:19.
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté August 29, 2012, 18:54:23 | #22

Quote
This is... very different from the "leaked" list of changes that were flying around a couple of days ago, the ones that had people were screaming "NERF! IOPS RUINED FOREVER!"
Not different, just more detailed.

It isn't a nerf, overall it is a good idea to change spells that are not used, I just don't think adding spells with gimmicks that rival what Rogues and Foggers have to do is the way to go about it. And changing Mutilation was just a bad idea.

That being said, I will see what they actually end up doing before passing final judgement, but this isn't a good start.


This post has been edited by Revil-Nunor - August 29, 2012, 18:58:33.
Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2011-05-24
posté August 29, 2012, 19:14:55 | #23
Oh, wrath is ready the next turn. Jumps + duel. Oh... So now its 2 turns keeping the iop away from wrathing. AND btw. while you are at it, wanna do something about sacriers BTM? The duel kinda thingy would be a good idea to replace it (sort of useless now when sacrifice is differend and every element has stealing spells)


Former Subscriber Dreggon Breaker
* * Member Since 2010-12-05
posté August 29, 2012, 19:16:49 | #24
Hmmm...not sure how I feel about this being an Iop and all. I will have to see how the new spells play out before I too past judgement.

Never did use Brokle though...would hate for all spells to revolve around that one.


200
Jammie (Zatoishwan)
Noblesse Oblige
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2009-08-11
posté August 29, 2012, 19:17:02 | #25
Well I won't complain about new changes because you won't change it back anyway, but it should be priority to make all the classes somehow balanced. You make foggernaut and then just leave it as it is? Foggernaut is almost completely useless in pvm battles unless there are 2 of them in team. They are slow,no decent buffs, no strong dmg spells, turrets either die too soon or cant reach enemies/allies .. the list go on i just don't see why try to make iops more fun when there r million things to take care of first.

Just so you know by taking dmg spells of Iops you took another potential 972 damage Iops could deal per turn :/ while being on 12 ap base. I know there will be variety of attacks now but weren't iops made to deal massive dmg ? How exactly will you make the dmg go up now when you even make the spell precipitation unable to combine with weaps/wrath. This will only lead to annoyed players and unbalanced classes. Way to go...

So just be a bit reasonable and make classes balanced first before trying to balance it in places that don't need it.


Monsieur le Traducteur * Member Since 2009-04-27
posté August 29, 2012, 19:19:55 | #26

Quote (ilarigh @ 29 August 2012 19:14) *
Oh, wrath is ready the next turn. Jumps + duel. Oh... So now its 2 turns keeping the iop away from wrathing.


You do realize a simple pushback or sideway push would lock him out of your range? Duel + Wrath only works if you somehow got stuck with no way to pushback the Iop.


200
Jammie (Zatoishwan)
Noblesse Oblige
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2009-08-11
posté August 29, 2012, 19:22:16 | #27
I almost forgot that there was no Mutilation when I counted. With extra 2 AP from any ap buffing class =Mutilation and dmg will increase greatly once more. So once again .. Where in Iop's holy name is the dmg Iops could deal?


Subscriber Mopy King Cleaner
* * * * Member Since 2008-05-24
posté August 29, 2012, 19:42:58 | #28
Im liking the iop changes alot, but I still am sad that it is confirmed no new changes for enus


190
Hungry-Mama (Zatoishwan)
Avarice
Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2011-11-04
posté August 29, 2012, 19:47:33 | #29
*le sigh* I'm really just whining now, but... Really, Lichen - you said in your own words that the class is already balanced? Why are you spending an update to change and improve a balanced class when there are others (such as the poor, humble Enutrof) who could use it much more? Forever alone...

 


199
Subscriber Ouginak Torturer
* Member Since 2011-08-23
posté August 29, 2012, 20:00:48 | #30
Man, the Iop will be awesomely better! The new Mutilation may be not good for most of them, that´s because they are viewing from the worst side. Lets say an int iop use this, he rely a lot on spells so, with 10 base, you will get 14 for 1 turn = 2 SS, and 2 Destructives, although they will have only 6 AP for the next round. That´s equal to 2 SS. I predict lots of iops turning into Int again, as, if i understood correctly, iops that rely on spells more than weapons are the biggest beneficiated from those changes, although the idea of keeping the enemy stuck to you for 1 round is pretty better for str iops than int. Well i couldn´t make so much sense about these changes cuz i´m just too confused and at the same time excited with them, as i´m one of the last int iops at endgame of all the game (on my server at least there are just 3 or 4 like me).

So, when the 2.8 beta will be open?


Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-02-09
posté August 29, 2012, 20:01:18 | #31
i like it but i think the enu comes later ( i hope so :/



Former Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2011-08-12
posté August 29, 2012, 20:25:05 | #32
finnal int iop got an iop wrath yall should let us use Strengthstorm 3 times again



Former Subscriber Touchparak Smasher
* * * * Member Since 2009-05-26
posté August 29, 2012, 20:26:06 | #33
To me this just looks like a buff to intel Iops... Which are already stupidly powerful...

I see how the changes are made to freshen up the Iop, but they're all pretty much useless changes..


193
Azula (Rosal)
Platinum
Former Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2009-05-30
posté August 29, 2012, 20:51:00 | #34

Quote (Justforsell @ 29 August 2012 19:17) *
Well I won't complain about new changes because you won't change it back anyway, but it should be priority to make all the classes somehow balanced. You make foggernaut and then just leave it as it is? Foggernaut is almost completely useless in pvm battles unless there are 2 of them in team. They are slow,no decent buffs, no strong dmg spells, turrets either die too soon or cant reach enemies/allies .. the list go on i just don't see why try to make iops more fun when there r million things to take care of first.

Just so you know by taking dmg spells of Iops you took another potential 972 damage Iops could deal per turn :/ while being on 12 ap base. I know there will be variety of attacks now but weren't iops made to deal massive dmg ? How exactly will you make the dmg go up now when you even make the spell precipitation unable to combine with weaps/wrath. This will only lead to annoyed players and unbalanced classes. Way to go...

So just be a bit reasonable and make classes balanced first before trying to balance it in places that don't need it.
Do you even know how much it sucks to have 2 Foggernauts in a team?

-Yen.


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2006-02-01
posté August 29, 2012, 20:52:37 | #35
apart from mutilation i think this is a decent update for iops. Not sure why they changed mutilation though. Also unsure why they are focusing on arguably the most balanced class out there.


199
Former Subscriber Royal Tofu Plucker
* * * Member Since 2008-08-06
posté August 29, 2012, 20:57:26 | #36
Well everyone, now we know where their class balancing focus has been for the past few months XD

Anyway, I've always said Iops could use a change, so I mostly support the spirit of these changes. We'll just have to wait and see how balanced everything is once the numbers come out. It does seem like int is getting quite a buff here, though, and agi (once again) is being left ignored. I'm expecting a lot of iop players are going to be switching to intell now.

There are a few points I want to bring up, though:

  • It seems to me that precipitation can be cast after some CC or Iop's wrath, pretty much negating the negative "no CC/Iop's Wrath" malus for the turn. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
  • I'm not sure if the devs know what a glass cannon actually means. A glass cannon is not a character that exposes itself (in fact due to their low survivability it's often the opposite), but a class that deals tremendous damage at the expense of low vitality and survivability. All the spells they brought up (Precipitation, Duel, Sword of Fate) don't do anything to make the class more fragile. Duel is in fact something you'd find in a tank class' arsenal.
  • Ironically, the one spell that actually fit in perfectly into the glass cannon role was removed (mutilation actually cost some hp to use), and they retained the spell that completely goes against what a glass cannon is all about (vitality). I'm not sure why they removed mutilation completely while keeping vitality.
  • Other than the removal of mutilation, I do agree with how they handled all the other buffs. Iops had way too many + damage buffs that were just kinda sitting there, not adding a lot of tactical depth to the class. I think the alterations to power are also necessary, as power never really had a noticeable impact at the epic levels.
  • Again, we're gonna have to wait until they release some actual numbers, but the spells based on erosion have the potential to be dangerously imbalanced. It's a fine line though, because they can also be almost useless if they start to deal some actual damage when the target's max hp is almost non-existant.



This post has been edited by Scientiavore - August 29, 2012, 20:59:02.
Unofficial Forum Answer Bot Count Harebourg Clocker
* * * * * * Member Since 2006-02-21
posté August 29, 2012, 20:59:58 | #37

Quote (wonderous-yenthe @ 29 August 2012 20:51) *

Quote (Justforsell @ 29 August 2012 19:17) *
Well I won't complain about new changes because you won't change it back anyway, but it should be priority to make all the classes somehow balanced. You make foggernaut and then just leave it as it is? Foggernaut is almost completely useless in pvm battles unless there are 2 of them in team. They are slow,no decent buffs, no strong dmg spells, turrets either die too soon or cant reach enemies/allies .. the list go on i just don't see why try to make iops more fun when there r million things to take care of first.

Just so you know by taking dmg spells of Iops you took another potential 972 damage Iops could deal per turn :/ while being on 12 ap base. I know there will be variety of attacks now but weren't iops made to deal massive dmg ? How exactly will you make the dmg go up now when you even make the spell precipitation unable to combine with weaps/wrath. This will only lead to annoyed players and unbalanced classes. Way to go...

So just be a bit reasonable and make classes balanced first before trying to balance it in places that don't need it.
Do you even know how much it sucks to have 2 Foggernauts in a team?

-Yen.
Have you been in a group with two good foggernauts?


Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2006-07-08
posté August 29, 2012, 21:03:58 | #38
we will have to wait and see ,power may last only two turns now, and be 200% power or 250% on a crit?i hope they buffed the base dam of SOI agood bit ,and there is now no way for a str iop to buff there CC hits apart from a agi spells(divine sword).
i hope Poutch lasts a few turns on the target, many 5ap weapon iops may now be useing 4ap weapons after 2.8


Former Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2012-01-05
posté August 29, 2012, 21:04:18 | #39
but wait :O if the new update is coming out, does that mean no more x2, x3 for other chares on the account? D: better lvl up quick



200
Deimos (Rushu)
Honeybee
Former Subscriber Pikoko Pilot
* * Member Since 2006-08-01
posté August 29, 2012, 21:10:30 | #40

Quote (Scientiavore @ 29 August 2012 20:57) *

  • It seems to me that precipitation can be cast after some CC or Iop's wrath, pretty much negating the negative "no CC/Iop's Wrath" malus for the turn. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I think that is by design. The main reason behind the restrictions is so the spell does not enable more easy Jump+Wrath combinations or a full turn of smacking your opponent in the face 3-5 times.
The intended use would be for situations where you leave something with really low HP where you could finish them off with juuust one more spell. And if that happens to be just after you used CC or Wrath, then sure, why not? I mean, what can you realistically squeeze in with Precipitation, maybe an extra SoI or Concentration? It's only good for the "Finisher" role the devs wanted.


Member of the Zenith * Member Since 2005-08-01
posté August 29, 2012, 21:10:32 | #41
Iops are considered one of the most balanced but they are also one of the most bland. As they are now there are very few options actually available to them. Poking with spells, jumping in to smash, throwing around some +dmg and charging your Wrath. I like that they are being given a proper role to leverage rather than just raw damage. I don't think anyone would say Iops are the most in need of a change but it needed done sooner or later.

I want to see Enutrof changes too but I guess the Overhaul Roulette (the Wheel of Nerf's less despised sibling) didn't land on them this time.


This post has been edited by surgray - August 29, 2012, 21:12:29.
200
Subscriber Piglet Milker
* Member Since 2011-07-26
posté August 29, 2012, 21:16:05 | #42
I gotta say,this is nice! Finally some more tactical spells and versatility.I already see myself isolating annoying Enis and Osas and then destroying in kolo.Iops will now be more dangerous,althou I don't like the new spell Precipitation.I mean Mutilation was one of the best power-up spells and they remove it?No more Mutilation+x2 Giger's Otk .-.


51
Vblasted (Solar)
Former Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2011-05-19
posté August 29, 2012, 21:26:45 | #43
I agree about the precipitation change multiplication is a great small buff spell i don't think it's worth trading it for anything keep multiplication and i'm on board.


Subscriber Scaraleaf Planter
* Member Since 2010-10-31
posté August 29, 2012, 21:34:12 | #44
Glass cannon (from a dictionary) - Generally the term refers to any character that delivers very high attack damage but is weak in defence and dies very easy.
As I pointed many times before, Iops are not dealing any better damage than other classes can do.
Peccary blade, good daggers/staff, high CH sram's lethal attack, sacriers punishment - these are making attacking part of your proud "glass cannon" sound hillarious. Wrath is easy to turn off and cost a lot. Also Iop's spells are more close combat (not to say melee) - that's not what "glass cannons" do. They hit and run. Everybody else can run better (Enu, Cra, Sadi, Sram, Pandawa, Masqueraider, Eca, Eni - they all can add MP to themselves! Did I forget anyone?). You also made Iops to buff more than fight, so they are becoming more and more useless with every update.
They are going to still deal their not so good damage, but now they have to buff every 2nd turn.
Shorter vitality duration is what everyone except Iops aglad to see.

To let them use their target designator role you have to give them Vitality for more than 5 turns (which are going to be less).
They will have to run and buff more than attack to live, but they will have to get close to the enemy to attack...
Congratulation of making the very first unique schizophrenic class!
[...]
Schizophrenic conversations that
I'm always having with myself.
I hear these voices in my head are competing.
Maybe I could use a little help
[...] The new Iop's anthem - "Schizophrenic Conversations" by Staind


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2007-10-22
posté August 29, 2012, 21:39:38 | #45
I think the Iop needed some change so it can bemore diverse. I welcome change that willgive Iop strategic chance on playing pvp.


Former Subscriber Member Since 2012-07-11
posté August 29, 2012, 22:03:16 | #46
Iop Is Dead!!!!
Why does they changed him ?!! PFFFF!!!!
Now is good!


200
Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-05-09
posté August 29, 2012, 22:49:34 | #47
I think Ankama misunderstand what balance means... 10 PM undodgable and gravity state.. bravo ankama ...

Wizardgo


This post has been edited by HuguitoDofus - August 29, 2012, 22:50:22.
199
Former Subscriber Royal Tofu Plucker
* * * Member Since 2008-08-06
posté August 29, 2012, 22:51:04 | #48

Quote (Frunupulax @ 29 August 2012 21:10) *

Quote (Scientiavore @ 29 August 2012 20:57) *

  • It seems to me that precipitation can be cast after some CC or Iop's wrath, pretty much negating the negative "no CC/Iop's Wrath" malus for the turn. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I think that is by design. The main reason behind the restrictions is so the spell does not enable more easy Jump+Wrath combinations or a full turn of smacking your opponent in the face 3-5 times.
The intended use would be for situations where you leave something with really low HP where you could finish them off with juuust one more spell. And if that happens to be just after you used CC or Wrath, then sure, why not? I mean, what can you realistically squeeze in with Precipitation, maybe an extra SoI or Concentration? It's only good for the "Finisher" role the devs wanted.
Yea, that's what I figured. I don't have a problem with it either, I just needed some clarification. Thanks for your input ^^


193
Azula (Rosal)
Platinum
Former Subscriber Kaniger Hunter
* * * Member Since 2009-05-30
posté August 29, 2012, 23:55:33 | #49

Quote (Revil-Nunor @ 29 August 2012 20:59) *

Quote (wonderous-yenthe @ 29 August 2012 20:51) *

Quote (Justforsell @ 29 August 2012 19:17) *
Well I won't complain about new changes because you won't change it back anyway, but it should be priority to make all the classes somehow balanced. You make foggernaut and then just leave it as it is? Foggernaut is almost completely useless in pvm battles unless there are 2 of them in team. They are slow,no decent buffs, no strong dmg spells, turrets either die too soon or cant reach enemies/allies .. the list go on i just don't see why try to make iops more fun when there r million things to take care of first.

Just so you know by taking dmg spells of Iops you took another potential 972 damage Iops could deal per turn :/ while being on 12 ap base. I know there will be variety of attacks now but weren't iops made to deal massive dmg ? How exactly will you make the dmg go up now when you even make the spell precipitation unable to combine with weaps/wrath. This will only lead to annoyed players and unbalanced classes. Way to go...

So just be a bit reasonable and make classes balanced first before trying to balance it in places that don't need it.
Do you even know how much it sucks to have 2 Foggernauts in a team?

-Yen.
Have you been in a group with two good foggernauts?
I have been and IMO it sucks to have to, because of the Turrets, also, I'd like to state that I had 2 Foggernauts from the same element in my team so.

-Yen.


Member of the Zenith * Member Since 2006-09-30
posté August 30, 2012, 00:03:15 | #50

Quote (HuguitoDofus @ 29 August 2012 22:49) *
I think Ankama misunderstand what balance means... 10 PM undodgable and gravity state.. bravo ankama ...

Wizardgo
It is a locking spell used to focus fire on 1 target. The Iop also suffers Gravity and -10 MP....

Besides all one needs is release or an ally that can push.

"Duel" is my fave...almost tied is Pouch...of the new spells.


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