Uou, frig 3 \o/

you should find some other random statistics to give us in other episodes of ankama on air.

I agree, statistics are fun to hear... especially "pointless" ones that you'd never know without computers.

Examples: Number of emote fart used in 24 hours, Fastest time through the Gobbal dungeon, Amount of wheat harvested in a week.

Thanks for those stats on Frigost... that makes total sense as to why FG3 has not been released yet! Only a couple weeks ago did I FINALLY get my whole team through to FG2... haven't even taken a crack at the first dungeon yet...lol.

The sound of new gear, drops, ect... new & old dungeons, sounds awesome! I'm very excited.

Thanks for the IAoA, it was great,
Benjamight

Can we hope in getting soon an english community manager for Wakfu?! I sense Mascha is overflowed with work.

Nice %. That's what multiclienting does for you.

I would like to give a player's view on frig 3. Your statistics are for all servers, but that is an unfortunate way of viewing things. No, the smaller servers won't benefit as much from a release of frig 3, however the impact on some of the larger servers would be larger than just the dungeons. In addition to players having new areas they can explore, there is also new gear that comes from it. You don't have to do the dungeon to get the gear, you simply have to buy it. Whereas this makes the new gear rather expensive (since only a few % of the players have access to the mats), it does alter the markets, and pushes some previously expensive gear down in price, making it more affordable to your average Joe.

In some sense this makes releasing frig 3 more important now than when a large portion of the population have completed frig 2. If everyone completed frig2, the new gear for frig 3 would be rather easily obtainable and would have a less pronounced impact on the market. To put it in more mathematical terms, we can view the impact the release of frig 3 has on the markets as two separate functions (now or later). If released now, I would expect the markets to have a nicely arched increase of new gear, which slowly tapers out. In this model, we would see prices to be rather high for a few months, then drop down a bit as time progresses, causing other gear to gradually price itself out accordingly. If released only when a large portion of the population has completed frig 2, then the larger servers would see no arch. They would see a wall of new gear flooding the markets, throwing everything into a disgusting mess for a month, and then rapidly settle in. That hurts everyone. First of all, that means that anyone attempting to sell their old gear would find it instantly worthless (or at least greatly depreciated, beyond what should happen). Second, those of us who have completed frig 2 would find that doing anything in frig 3 would be sort of pointless marketing-wise. After all, whereas prices would be high at first, demand would be low and nothing would sell. An example of the flooding process is with trophies. Because everyone was looking to get them, a bunch hit the markets, and prices settled out almost instantaneously. However, this was good because it was a new product, and didn't displace too much in the way of former gear.

Now then, let us look at some reasons why the completion percentage is so low for these dungeons. Many of the smaller servers simply don't have the player base to get through everything. A large portion of players dislike the way the frig bosses are set up [I hear 'too hard' and 'obnoxious' a lot when in discussion with people who don't like the dungeons], and many find running the dungeons to be tedious. There is no incentive for players who have passed some of the lower ones to do them again, and so many people flounder when trying to find groups for say, obsidemon. This will not change no matter how much time you give it. There is no need for players to get from one area to the next, so many simply choose to not do the dungeons, with the exception of mastogob which is a great source of exp.

However, there are some people who relish the challenge of the whole thing, and those people are the true audience for the frig3 release. They are chomping at the bit for newer and harder dungeons to test their metal on. As for myself, I have not as yet completed CB, but I expect I will as soon as frig3 comes out.

That's my two cents, and if you read this all then I am impressed with the amount you care about what one person has to say. Keep up the awesome work with your podcast, I love the show.

*quits until eps3 comes out* see you all in 2020!

I worry that Ankama's solution will be to increase the difficulty of easier dungeons and ignore the problems with Frigost dungeons. I also see the problem with the completion as a direct result of the players who play as a single until rather than as a group with others. If there was more emphasis and reward for players to do PvM and to help each other in PvM (The biggest factor) then these dungeons would be completed by a much larger majority.

Now a lot of multiclienting players will come back with the response that taking random people is a liability and they can't afford that. If there were more players willing to run these with random players then the random players would learn the dungeons as well allowing for more and more team play going into these very difficult areas of the game.

It's my opinion that this is the problem that needs to be addressed before F3 is even considered for release. I'm sure it will be a blast with a lot of new content but the PvM problems desperately need to be addressed so that this game can start to thrive around it's very in depth combat system.


One idea that has been suggested before and one that I believe would be an excellent one is to allow groups of different sizes to complete the dungeons, perhaps Two, Four, and Eight. The drops, experience rewards, and difficulty would all need to be scaled on every dungeon which is a massive undertaking, however it's my belief that it would be in the games best interest. By allowing different sized groups to undertake dungeons at their discretion you not only make PvM easier to accomplish but you make it more desirable for smaller, less active guilds, as well as single account players who are not part of any guild.


This post has been edited by Alyss-Sin - February 09, 2012, 00:40:07.

When you gave the percentages, did you count every character which has subscription? becouse some people have quit during the years and haven't done any dungeons in frigost becouse of that

Too hard for the single player, an few willing to run the dungeons on frigost to move on ahead an get ready for episode 3. All I hear is the guild talk about how they need +100 or so Million kamas for an end game set. I'd never be able to make that kind of cash no matter what I try, there is always risk of getting auto banned for 2 hrs if I try farm an sell bread to try buy the mats needed for a decent set.
People rather go with others so they know that they can win, with no fear of losing. I'd rather just have the set I made myself... already a lone wolf, an this is how people know me.

Too hard for the single player, an few willing to run the dungeons on frigost to move on ahead an get ready for episode 3. All I hear is the guild talk about how they need +100 or so Million kamas for an end game set. I'd never be able to make that kind of cash no matter what I try, there is always risk of getting auto banned for 2 hrs if I try farm an sell bread to try buy the mats needed for a decent set.
People rather go with others so they know that they can win, with no fear of losing. I'd rather just have the set I made myself... already a lone wolf, an this is how people know me.

Just my 2 cent,

1) Why not put limits to the boss immunity or increase un-immunity for more than one turn. Its very hard to attempt even to remove the immunity for the boss.

For example Royal Mastogob, instead of one turn for when you push back the boss for removing his immunity, why not increase it to two turns when he's push back. The same goes for all the Frig dungs. I love playing them, but these limits I believe is a huge factor.

2) Why limit removal of boss immunity to certain characters. Very hard on low population servers to recruit certain characters for specific dungs. i.e. unless you multi-client.

For example Royal Mastogob, Royal Pingwin and Obsidemon's, these dungs put you automatically into limits when facing the boss. You must have a character which can either heal others or push back.

When FG3 is released I hope the dungs don't have immunity like FG2, its overkill. I would like to see a boss that just uses normal spells like everyone else. Give me the power to immunity at start of fight when I get to lvl 201, LOL.

I just completed the Wreck of the Hesperus after many tries and attempted Obsidemons twice yesterday. Man, kind of hard fighting a boss with mobs that hit just as hard or more!!!

Izmar,

Question for next inside Ankama,

Why not allow for making of kamas just like in Wakfu? Not like a profession, maybe like crushing items for runes. This would fix many issues faced by kamas. Just make sense. 

@xxsem I would be very sad if they made the frig dungeons easier to complete. The whole thrill of running them is the challenge they present. Sure, I go with groups that have no reason to lose in the run, and yes that does mean multiclienting. I own three 190+ characters, but as of yet I'm not in an entire endset on any of them. I like the difficulty of the dungeons, and have often tried to solo (with fair success) dungeons I have no right winning on my own.
@aussie/alyss prove to people that you are competent in more simple runs and they will let you in on the harder ones. I would never take someone I don't know through tengu+, but I have no problem getting to know a player on a few easier dungeons. Yeah, that means /r is out, but if you make it known in your guild that you want to do one of the higher runs then you shouldn't have more than a week of waiting before someone decides to do it and leaves room for you (provided you are liked and big/good enough to join.)

I'm kind of in the same boat as Seath... I would be very disappointed if they made the dungeons even easier (they already did that once, and I think that was fair). The whole point of Frigost is to give high end gamers a challenge. It has taken me over a year to get my team equipt & leveled enough to FINALLY pass Obidemon. I died several times trying, and every time I wanted to go again...lol. With the added feature of jumping back to the room you left off in a dungeon, I don't see why people would complain so much about the difficulty?

I like the challenge Frigost gives me, and yes, I still run old dungeons... sometimes just to smash something really good, and other times, to harvest a resource for the markets. I have taken several people with me through the first few dungeons on Frigost... the trick is finding someone who is actually wanting to "fight" their way through, and not just be leeched for the xp...lol. I have made several first time friends recruiting someone for a run, or linking up with someone I've seen calling out for help for a while.

PLEASE don't make Frigost easier... it's good just the way it is. If you check my player activity, you will see I still enjoy running all 4 dungeons of the first area, and also that I still enjoy running dungeons throughout the rest of Dofus. I'm looking forward to my first attempt at the 5th dungeon on Frigost, which will probably happen this weekend. Ready for the next challenge, that will probably kill me several times before I figure out...lol. But that's ok. It will be an earned victory...lol.

Long Live Frigost,
Benjamight

Seathblood and Benja-mights,

Thanks for the comments. Maybe you two could have a idea on how to make the percent go up for players that haven't complete certain dungeons on Frig. Question for you both, How would we fix the problem of the low percent of people only getting through a few of the dungeons on Frig?

Maybe your right, without making the dungeons easier, maybe -

1) Just giving access to all area's of Frig even if you haven't beaten the required boss/dungeon.

2) Maybe limiting the dungeon to a specific level instead of dungeon.

3) Here's a nice one, maybe a award lockable to the account of player. Something worth doing the dungeon. I know they drop resources to make gear, but something else like a pet/petmount/gear/etc. Make the dungeon worth dying over and over again till you win.

Just a few more idea's on how to maybe increase the percent of players who haven't completed Frig dungeon. With these idea's maybe it will allow for a increase in dungeon's completed and than the release of FG3.

I too am curious as to what solution a couple of multiclienters could come up with. Especially since they themselves contribute in no way to the further completion of Frigost. Perhaps if they were to remove themselves from their bubble and help the solo accounts out there, oh wait, that's a risk they are unable to take.

Xxsem,

I agree, it should be a server team effort to increase these percentages, since most likely FG3 will not be released until they get higher. The most common problem I seem to run into is the fact that so many people create a character, get up 90, 100, or 110 levels, and JUST as they're starting to become a vaulable team player for one of these dungeons, they start a new character...lol.

Personally, I like the fact you have to "earn" your way further into the Frigost Island, so I don't think they should change the way they have that... especially since this pretty much eliminates "leechers" mobbing people once you're past Buck Dungeon...lol.

I do agree that perhaps some reward for the first time you complete a Frigost dungeon would be cool.

Or perhaps a Frigost pet that only eats the souls of Frigost Bosses... the higher level the dungeon, the more it contributes in value! This would be awesome... it would encourage people trying to get to bigger bosses, because it cuts down on the leveling time for their pets. Also, maybe put a limit of 1 soul of each boss per 24 hour period. So a person could fight just 1 Royal Masto to count towards his pet, and wait 24 hours... OR, they can then try the Pinguin, Buck, and Obidemon... because at least then they have a CHANCE to add more to the soul while they're waiting to fight Masto again?

Another pet option is maybe it can't eat the soul of the same Frigost Boss 2 times in a row (unless 24 hours pass). So after Masto, if they make it to Pinguin or Buck and win, then it erases the timer for Masto... so they could zaap back & fight Masto again, and then move on to Obidemon if they wanted?

I'm not sure about others, but even me being already at higher levels, love the idea of a Frigost pet that eats the souls of dungeon bosses only. It would be a long & satisfying battle.

I'm going to post these ideas on the suggestion forum also... who knows, maybe something here will catch the eye of the developers?

Happy Hunting,
Benjamight


Ah, come on now Alyss-Sin... not all of us MA's don't help. I've actually helped several people through the 1st 3 dungeons... however, I only recently made it through the 4th, so I haven't had the oppurtunity to help there yet.

You know what... that has inspired me though... I'm making it a goal this weekend to spend all my time helping people through the first 3 dungeons. I'm stocking up on keys tonight and going to see if I can help make a difference on the Shika server.

Until the Whole Community is FG2,
Benjamight

so its only for remington server tho not Nox server ..... on wakfu

That's a great goal, I'd love to see you pull it off. I realize I generalized all MA's and I shouldn't have there are a few out there are do take the time to help a SA in need.

whens the cat class coming back? its killing me not knowing when it comes back.

FRIG STATISTICS

tbh i would like to know if all the active 180-200s were count or just all.
Secondly, i would love to hear the stats on 199-200s finishing the last dungeons are end game content and end games dofus is 199-200 not 180-200

Ben,

I like your ideas. Maybe they can take them all into account and make changes to help the issue. Did some more brainstorming to help.

I multi-client and also too take solo players, friends & guildie through dungeons. Being the guild leader, i've learned that most people are aways looking for kamas to buy a better set. But don't want to take the time to acquire it. For the most part, everyone at frig is still asking to be leech to high lvls with wis sets, but no battle set at all. I don't believe your population of real active players are at high enough lvls. I believe most are in the ball park of 50 to 150ish lvl, not even close enough lvl to even take on frig dungeons. Ok, here's my idea.

1) Why not combine certain servers to increase the population of active players available and able to accomplish the dungeon.

2) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss strength as some hit the same or even harder than the boss in dungeon

3) Maybe decrease the monster with the boss HP.

some more idea's.

@Alyss-Sin I believe you are talking about the relatively few of us with 8 180+ characters who spam CB nonstop without a need for outside contact. Personally, I don't like running a dungeon by myself unless its simply to see if I can. I belong to 3 guilds in Rushu, and in 2 of them I have helped several people to get through all of F1, and one or two to get past Tengu [my favorite frig dungeon is Fuji]. The 3rd guild needs no assistance, at 190 the account I'm a member with is a rather low level character there hehe.

@Benja The problem with your pet idea (in that it does little to help others out) is that multiclienters with enough accounts will still just run the dungeons without inviting anyone. I have a friend who raises 6-8 Stings at a time, and he lets others join in on his runs because he is a nice guy but he doesn't need to. However, I would be all for such a pet. <3 souleaters.

@xxsem I don't really like your first and second ideas personally, but your third one is spot on. A lot of people who haven't done the dungeons see no reason to do them. If they got something cool...perhaps a shield that gave you a status representing the highest level of completion you have earned or something...we might see a few more people trying to do the dungeons. Or maybe they could give the whole team an item whenever a member completed a dungeon for the first time. [HEY! perhaps that's how you get the soul eater pets Benja wanted, with relative strengths and stats to the dungeon beaten] In this fashion, people would be constantly looking to include new members into their groups.

Other ideas...hmm... well I believe what Alyss was trying to get at is that those of us with multiple accounts have already completed the dungeons and therefore can no longer personally increase %. So perhaps there could be a kama reward system tiered based on how many different IP addresses are represented in your group. I don't think this would be very effective, as giving too many kamas in reward could quickly just inflate markets but its an idea that perhaps someone else can expand on. That is all the thinking my poor little brain can handle tonight, but if I think of any more rest assured that I will spam this comments section with them.

P.S. I did a bit of math and if we did the pet thing with the distribution system, a player with 8 accounts could get a total of 36 pets through their own players (1 player in a group, then that1 +1, then those2 +1 ect up to 8... 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8=36). However, this requires a lot of outside assistance and tons of patience. Someone who just rushed in with their 8 would only be able to get 8 pets out of it...the more I think about that the more I really want it to become reality.

The number one reason why people prefer the simpler, easier dungeons to the hard frigost dungeons is that the experience rewards don't ramp up. Because of the annoying invulnerability techniques, etc it often takes an obscene amount of time to beat the boss.

The solution is simple, boost the exp to obscenely high levels just like the difficulty and time required. Right now in Frigost each successive dungeon seems to give you less and less return on investment. If you want to boost the percentages and get people working harder to go farther in the game, this curve should go the other way.

Each successive dungeon should give more exp and more valuable items, rather than weaker and weaker experience because the bosses take 1-2 hours to beat.

@Mishna that's also true. I can get 40m exp off of a good challenge with a Fuji soul, which can take ~80min, vs 10m exp off of a 10min Masto fight. That's 2x the xp, although I do get quite a few more kamas and a LOT more fun out of the fuji soul. However, I feel like if I was getting 80m exp off of a fuji soul my road to 200 would be far shorter and I'm not sure how I feel about that- would be like I was cheating or something lol.

Izmar: level160-180's cannot do celestial bearbearbarian dung!! , why do u guys sound surprised ?