I think rekop needs a rework, it's dmg is VERY LOW
Dunno about lvl 6 rekop, but those are the base dmg for lvl 5 rekop:
5~9 After 1 turn
6~10 After 2 turns
7~11 After 3 turns

Pretty crap is you ask me, sadly I wasted all my money on a omini eca, fully scrolled and them BAM rekop nerf.
Hasn't played for a year, then came back to try the new one. Still sucks.

Not to mention it can't get past armor. Something should be done to make the rekop build viable again.

I dunno about lower levels(90-190) but it in end game rekop is pretty strong since it hits pretty high and it can be stacked 4 times! Sure it won't be as devastating as it were but it is still nice to play one!

It should be able to bypass shields however.

This, for God's sake, this.

Well Idk...I mean, they would probably have to institute a max accumulation though. Maybe only 2 stacks at a time.
But still, it would be a welcome change I think.

It's already 4 stacks max.

Indeed, but were it to bypass shields I feel 4 would be a little much.

As an omni eca, I love to get those 4-stack ones, and if it were to be nerfed to 2-stack only, even with being able to hit trough shields, then it would basically just... suck.. lol

Even if there were no stacking limit, rekop still would be a bad spell.

What would make it better in your opinion?

i made a rekop thread LONG LONG LONG LONG AGO about this and yet people said it didnt suck and when people actually make ecas and use them they say it sucks. there you go...

Click here

Tell me where have you seen an eca use rekop? and if they did, did they even win? it should ignore resists when it hits otherwise its just useless


This post has been edited by LiQuidShoCkz - November 23, 2012, 07:25:14.

Bring back the old version would make it better.
It wasn't imbalanced as one needed a special build to work, I for one had to scroll every characteristic and I still would lose pvp all the time against other classes, mostly witch hadn't scrolled.
A fully scrolled character SHOULD have an upper hand in combat against a non-scrolled one. But nowadays my eca is simply useless.

I read back when the rekop was first nerfed that ankmma wanted to make the game less random and based in luck, THEN WHY I ASK did they make a class that is supposed to be based in luck ?

I don't think there's any chance of Ankama changing the spell back to how it used to be, so why not make suggestions on how to improve it as it is now? Higher damage with shorter waiting period to do damage maybe?

I would be fine with changing back as it was and reducing the dmg untill people think it was balanced.
But all this delayed dmg brings more disavantages then advantages.
Xelors can counter in the turn needed.
Feca can immune or truce
Sadis can sylvian

Plus the fact that it does dmg in every element already was a drawback, as it would do less dmg to anyone under a feca armor.

Well with Ankama's whole "moving away from random/luck" stance, I strongly doubt they will bring back even a nerfed version of the old Rekop.

So let's see, if the spell was able to hit through shields and also have a shorter delay before damage (maybe make it two stacks with slightly higher damage to compensate), would it make the spell better?

it definitely needs more damage, especially if your hits don't even hit instantly and uses all 4 elements

Curious - is the damage you get out of one cast even worth the 4AP if you compare it to other 4AP attack spells?

As a str ecaflip with quite a bit of cha/agi stat points from gear, I hit about 400-500 with rekop on 0% resist with no buffs. That is just about as much as my playful claw does except rekop allows me to stack my damage on a single turn and blitz and is not linear, not to mention it is beautiful with damage buffs and % damage buffs. To me it is worth it. Just my 2 cents

See, this is what I don't get. Isn't Ecaflips supposed to be a luck based class?

Roulette, Eca's Luck, Rekop, and your Kitten are all good depictions of how they are luck based.

What the Devs are specifically trying to move away from is crit reliance. This is where luck is all too meaningful, for example Sram's Lethal Attack. A crit with this spell is nearly an instant win.
Another example was the Enu's Ghostly Shovel, which would UB on a crit only.

Rekop works really well with blitz tactics.
Stack Rekop, add erosion, use Masquerade, then hit hit hit.
In terms of PvM stacking Rekop before the boss is made vulnerable gives you extra damage at nearly no cost.

I think bypassing shields would certainly be a good idea however.

Are there any suggestions on how it can be improved?
I read the above link, but suggestions and concepts are a good way to get a handle on what it is that people perceive as bad about it.

What is worse, the reliability or damage?
A 3rd turn hits pretty well, but immediate damage isn't very satisfactory.
It would be interesting if each damage line had a % chance of being a life steal as opposed to regular damage.
For example:
Immediate: 80% chance damage will be a steal instead of regular
1: 60% chance damage will be a steal
2: 40% chance damage will be a steal
3: 20% chance damage will be a steal

This would be for each individual damage line (so 1 roll for each element).

This would help to offset the lower returns of an immediate hit.

Of course this is a rather ridiculous suggestion.

It is a bad idea to compare spells from different classes, but just to illustrate from a raw damage perspective:
Rekop level 6: 7-11 x4
2/target
accumulation 4

Ambush level 6: 11-13 x3 (and activates special damage spell)
1/target
accumulation 1 (special spell)

So the damage class clearly gets a more damage oriented version.
The support/damage class gets a watered down version.







This post has been edited by Electricotter - November 24, 2012, 04:27:52.

im pretty sure they should fix fate of ecaflip if they want to remove luck based stuff. Failing a FoE x2 in a row is an instantly lose especially when you need it

Doesn't FoE have 1/100 failure like most other spells?

Or do you mean failing to get a crit?

He means that it's a spell that needs to be at 1/2 and even then it's unreliable

I can agree with that.

Don't be surprised if it changes in the future.

How about a buff on the crit damage?

Mediocre damage on a normal hit and hard damage on a crit. That way it maintains a form of the luck factor, an the spell is less hit-or-miss like the original?

One of my main concerns about being an ecaflip is Felintion. The class spell isn't viable for all builds of ecaflip such as the agi and/or chance build (I have it level 1 and I'm str/cha/agi, i cant seem to find it useful enough for me to use it and i hardly see any other ecaflips use it also). It has an awkward range for pushback too. My suggestion is to make Felintion viable for all builds of ecaflip is to change its function to auto critical hits, giving it the range of 0 which means only the ecaflip can use it on themselves, and it only lasting for one turn which forces the ecaflip to use it within that turn.

I have to disagree, as a str/agi eca I use Felintion all the time. But yes making it useful for agi/cha would be great(maybe making it steal 60(80) agi and chance at lvl 6).

Fate of Ecaflip should be less reliable on critical hit. On a normal hit it could move back 2 cells or add some ch meaning your next spell will be 1/1. You still need luck for the first cast, but is less luck dependent on the second.

I will sum up the eca spells that I think are too weak or useless:

Ecaflip's Luck: Really, I don't think anyone would raise this spell as it is now, why? Firstly because you get 25% chance of actually not dieing, as your opponent has to heal you twice, because if he heals you once and then dmgs you, you will die and obviously if he hits you in the first attack you will die.But EVEN IF you end up using it you wont cast it again, seriously you won't. And seeing that the benefit from leveling is only the CD, I don't see myself leveling that, ever.

Bluff: The only spell for chance ecas, as it is now it's only usable if you're a Agi/Cha AND if you have 1/2 on it, otherwise it's crap.

Perception: I think it's ok, but the + range from location is superior and every + dmg spell other classes get are also better, so maybe raise the +dmg or raise how much turns it stays up...

Repercussion: This spell is kind of good, but raising it don't add very much to it, the fact it only lasts 2 turns also make it not that good...

All or Nothing: never seen anyone use that after the update back in 1.28 to stop the easy farming it allowed...

Roulette: this one need a rework, the only useful buffs are the +crit/+dmg/+stats, it really should be something it was before minus the super heal and the unbewitchment

Wheel of Fortune: this one I don't get, why do we get less +power then Iops AND still have to take 10% dmg ? Makes no sense.

Summoning Claw: pretty useless, can't even be used as a dodge lock as it's agi is low. Maybe make Rotten luck take critical hits and it would be useful....

Feline Spirit: diagonal ? seriously ?

Reflex: This one i have a question about, isn't the max erosion 50% ? then why make it stack twice?

Rekop: This one REALLY need a rework.


This post has been edited by Pedruuuuuu - November 29, 2012, 02:09:43.

All or Nothing is one of the main Int Eca spells. As Int it heals a lot especially on a crit.

Even if Felintion did steal agi/cha stats, why would any agi/cha ecaflip use it if it still does str based steal dmg?... again my original comment still stands, the overall function of it doesn't suite all builds of the ecaflip class. Felintion needs a completely new function to make it viable for all builds, it is still the only class spell that isnt appropriate for all builds of the class.

Making this move have any type of steal will not change the fact that it really has no relation to our class's playing style. All of our effects are activated only with a critical hit. Any other effect has no long-term use to the caster. Having a ~class~ spell that revolves around our ability to manipulate a crit in my opinion would be ideal. This way, every build of eca -whether it be str/agi, omni, int, cha/agi, or any combination- can actually make use of the spell rather than wasting 4 AP on an awkwardly ranged pushback spell or just having it collect dust without use in general. This is why I strongly agree with Amos about perhaps changing the Ecaflip "class" spell to something that will benefit the class as a whole rather than just a particular element Eca.

It would be nice to hear some feedback from the Zenith...

I got an idea. It'll work similarly to Brokle, where you cast it on an enemy. All spells (and only spells) casted on the target will become critical hits for some duration. If the target is hit in an AoE, only if the target is in the center cell will the 1/1 crit occur. However, the target's critical resistance is greatly increased (not including numbers). Although your ability to damage that target will become crippled (due to forced crits and high critical resistance), you become much more effective in disabling them with debuffs. Weapons will still be affected by the critical resistance, but they won't have 1/1 crits on the target.

There may be usage on allies, defending them from critical damage from the enemy, although they'll also be under fire from critical debuffs. This spell could also cause weapons to get 1/1 crits without being OP. With weapons not forced into crits, the Eca can debuff the target and hit them with full force weapons (unless they rely on multi-hit 1/2 daggers). The spell causing weapons to go 1/1 as well prevents the Eca and allies from both powerfully debuffing enemies and whacking them with weapons afterwards.

An unintended abuse I see coming out of this would be hitting the inflicted target with other enemies in an AoE. The other enemies will still get hit by the crit, but the critical resistance won't defend them, and they still take the strong debuffs. This could be remedied by causing the 1/1 crits to, beforehand, give the enemies in the AoE critical resistance for 1 turn. As I mentioned before, the 1/1 crit in an AoE can only be triggered if the inflicted target is in the target cell, which won't cause other enemies in the AoE to gain critical resistance.

This spell doesn't seem very luck based, but Eca's have a hunter role alongside luck (Reflex, the regular and crit debuffs) so this supplements it. Additionally, if the long undodgeable ap/mp/range debuffs along with others from other classes seem too OP at 1/1, at the end of the duration of the spell an unbewitchment can occur. Total or -4 turns is up to debate, but this also opens up an unbewitching option for allies. Feedback? Or any other ideas?


This post has been edited by FoodLord - December 02, 2012, 05:35:00.

Make it auto-crit? Bad idea.

Team of 2 ecas and a sram. 1/1 on lethal, you get annihilated. (thinking in kolo. Would annihilate in pvm too)

I use felintion quite a lot - it's a strong hit, steals and pushes back. Who cares about the range? Just use leap like once to move back in order to hit them.


As for making it agi/cha, even if you did no one would use it. You already have Bluff and Reflex, which are 2 of the most powerful ecaflip spells, which are 1-4 range and 1-3 range. If you have range for felintion, why bother using it, when you could triple (or sometimes quadrupel) cast bluff, and take off 1,500+ hp. (based on an agi eca I saw, lvl 120 hitting 500 with crits)

well Actually since lethals being changed (its still too strong on a crit) you wouldnt get k.od so 1/1 would be useful, but again it would be OP. The eca class is already one of the stronger classes thats not OP. Any buff an eca gets at this point I would see as pointless and making the ecas OP.

Mmm... well if lethal is being weakened, making it garenteed crit would still be OP.... Just look at Claw of Ceangal.


Also, I don't think Rekop is really weak (going back to an earlier point). My eca's lvl 135, with lvl 1 rekop it hits 250 (fully buffed, so about 50 dmg, 190% power) after 2 turns of waiting. When I managed to stack 4 (2 3 turns and 2 2 turns) while fully buffed, it managed to hit about 1.4k.

If that's too weak at level 1, I'd love to see how powerful you'd like it to be  

xzaosllama3, My original suggestion of changing felintion's function to an autocritical spell was to allow it to become more viable to the ecaflip class as a whole, having a str dmg spell and having it heal allies via int isn't suitable for agi/cha ecaflips, it technically is considered a "Class spell" but its not because not all builds of the ecaflip class can use it to its fullest potential. I also emphasized that only the ecaflip can use it, it doesn't affect allies, it becomes a self buff. If you compare it to Jinx which allows minimal hits and no critical hits for 2 turns (3 turns with a critical cast of jinx), 1 turn of complete critical hits is nothing. As for your latter post if you consider 1 critical of CoC to be considered OP, you are terribly mistaken. Before the revision to it, it allowed any ecaflip with it 1/2 to reduce any enemies base AP to nothing over a few short turns with no accumulation limit, as it stands now it is adequate.


This post has been edited by ZEROxz - December 03, 2012, 05:18:49.

Okay guys first of all Amos's suggestion that I agreed on has nothing to do with Sram Lethal Attacks. You guys are thinking about this suggestion far too much as a "team-based" thing. I consider Ecaflips to be damage-dealers, not support classes, and I am sure most agree with that assumption. The "Brokle"-like effect mentioned earlier probably would be "OP" since that target is basically a sitting duck for any one to 1/1 CH (such as your Sram's Lethal Attack). So, that being said, I go back to Amos's original idea: ~0 Range non-modifiable~ cast of 100% criticals for ONE turn. Let's say for fairness that we keep the spell at 3-4 AP (which is potentially one decent CC or Eca spell) to cast and even perhaps an 8 turn cool down. With the new AP cap, there is, without buff from allies, only a possible 12 AP usable for our entire pool of spells. If we were to cast this hypothetical 3-4 AP spell, that'd roughly leave only 8-9 AP left to work with. Considering Claw of Cangeal, Rough Tongue, and Fate of Ecaflip are each 4 AP, and All or Nothing is 3 AP, that would mean the caster could only pull off two of any of those spells that turn. Damage-wise, this wouldn't be overwhelming, since the spell's suggested function was to only affect ~crits~ and NOT tamper with maximizing any damage. Also, even if this did mean that our weapons could also be 1/1 CH, 8-9 AP left would only allow roughly two swings on a 4 AP weapon or three swings on 3 AP weapons (most likely would be dagger). Other weapons are usually 5 AP, anyway, so that would lower damage that round if anything. The damage from two swings with 100% CH < damage from three swings with the uncertain 1/2 CH. If a 3 AP weapon is to be used, which like I said would most likely be a dagger, then it would be pointless to use if it already wasn't 1/2. Three [dagger] critical hits that are guaranteed to crit really does not seem "OP" to me when you have Iop's with Brokle and Srams with Jinx running around. All that aside, any skilled Eca that would use this hypothetical spell would most likely try to pull off one of the previously listed spells, anyway. I don't know about the rest of my fellow Ecas, but I cherish my spell effects more than I care about my weapon. Please just realize this spell suggestion is intended for a self-cast use and function only to manipulate Critical Hits, and not the damage rolls. Please let me know what you think.

I have a few more suggestions from earlier posts that were left without much discussion that I should have posted altogether but I didn't want to write a novel... :v (did anyways)

Anyways, I have some suggestions for Ecaflip's Luck, Roulette, Kitten Summon, and Repercussion.

Eca Luck: I was having a hard time quoting "Zyn" from the first page of the thread but I really enjoyed reading his idea of rolling 50/50 +/- 50 res% in all elements. What I found the best thing about what he said was to make it clear what exactly the resolved effect was. If it has a 50/50 chance or rolling a helpful or hurtful effect, then it is still "luck"-based, while leaving the sheer randomness that Ankama is slowly moving away from. The possible issues that arise from this particular suggestion is resistance % cap. If a player already has 50% then it has no real benefit, and just risks rolling the alternative. Resistance % would have to go beyond the cap if this suggestion would have any real use. However, if you think about it, since it normally can hurt or ~heal~ the target, I do not think it is unfair if the res% can go to 100, ultimately just causing no damage to the player. On a critical hit it'd make things just more complicated, though. So my suggestion would be to just remove the randomness, and let the 50/50 chance affect only the initial cast, and then let the effect remain concrete and visible to all for the remainder of its effect.

Roulette: [I don't even use this spell, and ironically they named the challenge after me (appreciate the love though, Ankama , ) ]
Also like Zyn said, rolls such as AP/MP removal are irrelevant when we can guarantee those on CH of our other spells. I think we should remove its effect affecting everyone and have it work only on the caster (and maybe allies but that is debatable). Remove the useless effects and add simpler, more neutral buffs such as +/- AP, +/- MP, +/- range, +/- neutral damage, +/- Heals, +/- Fixed res, +/- Res%, +/- CH res, etc. This way, there is definitely still luck involved, with the possibility of rolling a hurtful effect, and still promotes class-wide buffs, rather than just a particular element. If there are effects that are worth taking the risk, then I say the caster his/herself should use it at his/her discretion. Having it roll something stupid is usually going to hurt the Eca (and team) in the long run anyway, especially in PvM.

Kitten: This needs to be buffed big time. It has low HP and res, and has mediocre lock. Compared to 2-3 AP Panda Wasta (that can put me in a powerful lock, weaken me, and reduce my Power for 2 turns), 2 AP Sram Double (that has the SAME vitality/MP as the caster, and can have amazing lock), 4 AP Osa Gobball (that can but me into gravity), and other troll summons, Kitten is just nuby. I use this summon to catch my prey, but if the prey can just slip away then there is no use. The kitten is also useless against Agi players/monsters. It has Air weakness with its terrible HP to top it all off. If I am to catch a good Cra, then my only hope is Kitten, which even then can be useless when against an Agi Cra. To make it fair, I say cutting its MP down to 5 would probably be best for everyone.

Repercussion: I like its current effect but the duration is eh... Due to its duration, its usually only cast-able at situational moments in my fights, such as the deciding turns of the entire fight.. Iop Vitality stacks and lasts longer. If anything, please just make it last until the end of my 2nd turn rather than the beginning?

Anyways, let me know what you guys think. I'm open for suggestions. Thanks

I personally think that the ecaflip needs to be just a little bit more luck based. I think the original idea with the class is that you either do something really amazing or do something meh. Bluff is a nice example of this. You can do a lot of damage with it but you can also do horrible damage. I like having the ecaflip based on luck, that's what they're supposed to be.

your 250 damage Rekop deals 0 damage to anyone with any kind of fixed resistance, CB set = Good game. Monsters do not have any fixed resistance at all. I tested on dofusbook 660 per rekop is the max you can get end game with boreas set and mixed custom items, even then you arent 12 ap or 6mp, i even had a 750% damage set at one point, boreas will do the most. But the best combination for rekop set would be barbearic set + CB set, 12/6 with decent + damages


This post has been edited by LiQuidShoCkz - December 08, 2012, 10:51:50.

I am affraid you are wrong there mate. Borealis is FAR from the most damaging set there is for rekop. And if 660 is your max, you are doing something wrong. I have done a 840 on a pouch without brokle and with my buffs only - and my set is as far away from Borealis or CB as you can get.
With the CB + bearbaric combo you have a pretty bad CC weapon, and you cant use the hard hitting str part of the eca (in adition to that it would make you a tri-element eca, not an omni one).

Though you are right about the fixed res. High fixed res = useless rekop :/

If you dont belive me I can get screenshots with brokle too from the beta where I am 1/2 on my eca (wooo~ Burned all my kamas there). Or you can leave when you are online on the beta here, and see for yourself ;] 

840 doesnt sound right, by your own buffs do u mean with roulette? I'm very curious, what level is your eca? Did you stack any rekops also?

1 rekop, no roulette, and I am lvl 199. Was a turn 3-rekop on a crit though, but I cant know my max damage for sure due to no Brokle, and I have yet to finish scrolling int, and I havent started scrolling chance yet.

I am online on the beta now, at the 4,4 Kanodejo, (Zat)Felition


This post has been edited by Jardar - December 08, 2012, 18:12:11.

@Felition, Do you have a omni set built for rekop?

Sounds great I'll get on the beta.


This post has been edited by ZEROxz - December 08, 2012, 18:14:23.

660 with no crit wof, which what it says on dofusbook, i havent tested the sets in game with boreas yet, but its more than cb + bearb, ive only used a damage% set with about 700% damage which hit 770 on a mask with Wof, against Asse shield, or captain ankama + CB set you wont deal more than 380 damage.


This post has been edited by LiQuidShoCkz - December 08, 2012, 20:02:51.

My WoF didn't crit either? just ask Zero, my damage with 1 rekop was more than 800. And I have checked, Borealis isnt the most damaging one.
Though as I said, I agree with the fixed res thingy - it basically kills rekop, and so does any shield spells. A rekop stack which would normally do 2.5k, could end up doing 50.

As for the Auto crit on self spell, it would be OP with weapons as well, take the level 1 baker weapon for instance. Although its impossible to get such a weapon at 1/2, a level 1 with the class spell should not be abusing such a thing.

That was just an example, there are many, many more weapons then that with less insane crit rates but are near impossible to get on 1/2. Thunderbuff hammer is also a good example. A good smell a turn before, auto crits spell, then 2x thunder buff = dead people.

I understand what you mean, and I am glad you expressed your opinion about this spell idea. As for the The Kneader example, I figured it wouldn't be ridiculously overpowered because the idea was to have the new "Felintion" take up a fair bit of AP to cast (3-4 AP maybe) so one could perform only limited actions with CH for those situations where you NEED a crit. And The Kneader is a 6 AP weapon. Although I know there are going to be players with really wealthy mains that get bored and hax out low level alts, I don't think there'd be enough stats on the set AND be able to maintain 10+ AP for that to work well for a lvl 1. And as you said, a 'good' smell may change the way things look in a fight. Isn't that how it is supposed to be? Either a good roll or bad roll ~depending on luck~ will change the playing field. But there are still good chances of getting terrible rolls. Iops with 12 AP can Thunderbuff twice, guarantee a Precipitation, then add many more hits in. Crits or not the damages must be favoring the Iops.
I really just want this spell to be something that all the elements can use. As for those that think "well 1/1 isn't really luck-based": A class that is meant to play as masters at gambling should be able to "cheat luck" once in a while. I thought it'd make things interesting if the game added a "trick coin" to make it less frustrating in our gameplay. However, if there are other suggestions to the current Eca spell(s) I'm all ears. But if everyone thinks that weapons really are too threatening then maybe we could just throw in the idea of a Weakened State to go along with the rest of those nice made-up effects.

If rekop changes, Casino can have my eca. Do i have to come back and remind people how much better rekop is now than it was in 1.29?

Also, 1/1 is NOT possible on dofus, such a thing would require the game to be recoded i believe, class spell needs to be a 3 ap spell that GIVES +50 crit fails to a target 0-6 range at lvl 6 with with the same cooldown as jinx/brokle.

Roulette needs a rework, rt needs to get rebuffed, Ankama needs to stop nerfing ecas. We aren't even close to good. Even the intell ones get bopped if they arent critting AoN.

Ankama has cut the last rope i was hanging onto with dofus, when they again nerfed ecas for no reason. Ill be back when i see improvment. Tired of spending over 200m just to be decent.

(P.S All Ecas go play wakfu. Ecas don't suck hard there, and are an actual gambling class.)


This post has been edited by knutsnuts - December 11, 2012, 11:11:18.