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Sadida Balancing, wake me up before you go-go - nevermind, I can solo
200
Former Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2012-08-06
posté February 20, 2014, 11:30:26 | #101
How about making an int spell which works very similliarly to chackra concentration, but can be used on a caster and adds up to 5 additional fire damage to any spells (castable every other turn)? This would enable a pure int sadi that is determined to attack to do quite a respectable damage with low ap spells, like leek pie or bush fire.

This could change the fact int is now looked upon only as a hybrid material.

PS. I just realized that by casting bush fire twice with this effect on, you'd end up dealing 8 times damage, 6 of which would be fire, which means that +dmg equipment would be pretty OP. Maybe the spell could be much stronger (lets say 15 fire damage) but in exchange reduced your your dmg by 50? This way it would still be very powerful for pure int sadis and less abuseable.


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2012-08-26
posté February 22, 2014, 23:05:56 | #102
how about hold on to the nerfs before its updated  


199
Marko-pt (Spiritia)
Tuga Power
Subscriber Larva
* Member Since 2008-09-29
posté March 30, 2014, 10:07:28 | #103

Quote (n0ak @ 20 February 2014 11:30) *
How about making an int spell which works very similliarly to chackra concentration, but can be used on a caster and adds up to 5 additional fire damage to any spells (castable every other turn)? This would enable a pure int sadi that is determined to attack to do quite a respectable damage with low ap spells, like leek pie or bush fire.

This could change the fact int is now looked upon only as a hybrid material.

PS. I just realized that by casting bush fire twice with this effect on, you'd end up dealing 8 times damage, 6 of which would be fire, which means that +dmg equipment would be pretty OP. Maybe the spell could be much stronger (lets say 15 fire damage) but in exchange reduced your your dmg by 50? This way it would still be very powerful for pure int sadis and less abuseable.
I was thinking about that ideia and i though that would be better if sadida do his job as a doll master and put that kind of spell like 3 fire damage for each ap or mp loss by enemy, in that way you would play your role and do little damage on the enemy.


200
Ponzu (Rushu)
Fedaykin
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2009-04-07
posté August 11, 2014, 00:17:27 | #104
Hello!

My name is Ponzu, and I recently posted a suggestion at the Sadida forum discussion and someone told me that I should post it here in the Zenith instead. Basically, I was talking about the sadida spell: Tree, and one of your question was, if I wanted to see one change to the class what would it be? And interestingly enough, that was basically my post. I wanted to see an improvement in the tree spell. It's my favorite spell because it's very helpful in both PvM and PvP matches, but even so, I still feel like it lacks something else. So I suggested two things (and I'm not sure if others have made the suggestions).

First suggestion: Sticky trees

As a sadida I felt the need to venture out and discover the forests of the world of twelve, and I found myself in the dark treechnid forest. Here I ended up fighting evil treechnids and they used a spell that amazed me. The spell was the sticky tree spell, and I couldn't help but feel jealous. I questioned why I couldn't summon something like that. Wasn't I fabulous enough?

So for this suggestion, I was looking at something to buff the irritation and nuisance that trees can cause to monsters and players. They are often just ignored, but if they were made sticky they would pose more problems and it would certainly highlight their effectiveness. One worry that I have with this though was whether this would possible make the Sadida class unbalanced (stronger?).

Second suggestion (my favorite of the two): Trees and Bush Fire combination

This suggestion came to mind because I was once fighting a Masq in solo PvP. As the fight drew on, more and more trees were summoned in the playing field (of course this was done by me). Forests were just my thing, I filled the map with about 20 trees or so (imagine how many turns that took). Anyway, as the fight grew longer trees got in his way, but it also got in my way. And at that moment, I prayed to the Sadida God to give me the power to massacre all those trees that were in my way (Gosh I was not in my right mind, what kind of sadida would wish to massacre trees?) And I was thinking:

What if when Bush Fire is cast on a tree, the tree will "Burn" and die completely and (possibly?) deal an area of effect damage to the surrounding squares. The damage can be minimal. It's just a way to get rid of trees quickly. This can lead to a much more tactical approach with trees. Also, if there are trees in the AoE, those trees will also burn causing a chain effect.

Well, that's all. I hope the Zenith considers this (especially the second one).


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté August 11, 2014, 01:46:36 | #105
About sticky trees: ...doesn't block already do this? Wouldn't the combination of block and sticky trees be too annoying and difficult to deal with? Especially as trees don't count as a summon?

The only way around this that I can see is: remove the tree spell, give the block more range, and give one of the spells (say, bramble or something) a new side effect: if a block is targeted, it sprouts into a sticky tree. It would possibly count in the summon limit, though maybe just as "half" a summon.

About tree+bush fire: ...doesn't doll sacrifice already do that? And life steals from the tree?


Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2008-05-03
posté August 11, 2014, 04:37:44 | #106
The block is insufficient at the moment. It's useful, I use it a lot. But I think it needs some improvements. At level 200, it only has 600 hp and has multiple negative resists. That's pretty much 1 hit from another high level character (and let's not even factor in how bad its AI is).

Sticky tree could be seen as too overpowered. Ankama sees Tree as something to block LOS, not necessarily something to lock people. I do think that we Sadidas need the ability to instantly remove the trees. The chance attack, doll sacrifice, is useless for characters who aren't chance (like myself) as it hardly does damage. And even for a chance character it won't necessarily kill the tree with its 1000+ HP.


200
Ponzu (Rushu)
Fedaykin
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2009-04-07
posté August 11, 2014, 06:59:30 | #107
I agree with AlphaWarror (Ash-ley). The block is really insufficient and could definitely use a rework. They can easily die from high level monsters and players so it doesn't do its job well. I know that this is all complaints and I don't really have a solution to that problem (maybe in the future ill think of something to contribute to the pool).

And for dolly sacrifice, even if you are chance, you can't take that thing down . . . it has like 55% chance resist at level 6. So yeah we really need a way to get rid of them fast when needed, and the bush fire idea was pretty cool for it (since it is fire).


This post has been edited by [Nerodos] - June 25, 2017, 03:54:31.
Reason for edit : Quoting the last post in a thread is against the rules
Former Subscriber Mufafah Rider
* * Member Since 2007-05-13
posté August 11, 2014, 19:03:49 | #108
That Bush Fire idea is really cool! I would also like to see that implemented. It's unique and sounds like it could be fun.


Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2008-12-30
posté August 12, 2014, 07:05:11 | #109
Just to improve on that amazing idea, what if you cast Bushfire on a tree and it swaps with you..and causes a small damage + erosion to everyone around the tree.

Basiclly what happens is that you burn the tree and swap with it, therefore the tree goes to *burning* state, and everyone around it gets Burned :0, losing a small amount of fire damage, + getting an 2 turn erosion effect. The tree is killed after its turn i guess.

This will finally give us sadida's a map manipulation spell...and we shall no longer be the victims of lock (ikr everyone hates that one sram with 180 lock, summoning a double right in front of you..and standing behind it!)


Also, do you think this will be too op? i mean tree does have a 3turn CD at level 6, and the damage this Combo does isnt that high, am saying 5-7damage in aoe? and about 20% or maybe 30% erosion for 2 turns? The reason why i wanted to add Erosion into is because i see sadida as the debuffer class, whom main role in pvp/pvm is to debuff(with spells like poisoned wind which lowers -400intell on a crit, mp reductions, Isolent bramble) and overall just be a huge pain in the backside with all the summons etc, so why not give them erosion? in most pvp or even solo pvm the main tactic most young sadis use is Summon dolls to mp/ap snuggle, and keep the enemy back, and slowly eat away at the helpless victims hp.

I think this will help sadida out alot, in both pvp/pvm..the sadida easily gets locked by mobs or other players and this will improve the tactical gameplay of the sadida class by alot. And will finally make classes such as srams/sacs think/plan alot more , instead of just running up and summoning a double.


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté August 12, 2014, 17:09:00 | #110
Bushfire won't have either erosion or swapping side effects, for a few reasons:

-All erosion spells are given to damage dealing classes, as means to fight support classes better. Sadidas are pretty much support, and already have stuff against shields (poisons). Plus, generally speaking, all erosion spells are in close combat classes, that already have to go out in the open to get you, risking themselves. Rogues are the only exception, and even then, their erosion has low range.

-All erosion spells have short range. Bushfire has a lot of range, so, not happening. Even if sadidas did gain erosion, it would be on dolly sacrifice, or something.

-As far as I know, lock is one of the intended weaknesses to sadidas, as it is for enutrofs and osamodas. I don't see any of those classes gaining means to escape lock, since one takes away MP, and the other summons a lot of stuff to keep the target away, meaning both are pretty hard to lock already. In fact, they took away the swap stuff from living bag. Since sadidas summon a lot AND take away MP (in AoE, no less), AND have better close combat options, that's really not happening.


200
Former Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2012-08-06
posté August 12, 2014, 21:54:39 | #111
I've heard and expanded on one idea about improving the tree spell some time ago.

It'd basically change trees into totems, creating a glyph around it. If you summoned a doll in the glyph, it would count as totem's summon, not sadidas'. This way knowledge of dolls could be removed and players could save on +summon equipment. Obviously, using a totem like that would mean that if it's killed, all its dolls would also perish. And if somebody didn't like the risk factor, totem could be used the same way tree is right now.


This post has been edited by n0ak - June 25, 2017, 03:54:31.
Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté August 12, 2014, 22:51:29 | #112
I'm watching this discussion and thinking...does tree really need improvements for you all to be suggesting changes to it? Tree is pretty much a block, except it doesn't move, but doesn't count on your summons limit. Many of you use it often, by your own admission. So, it's not like tree is some useless thing no one uses, like, say, word of thorn. Yeah, it blocks LoS, but tear doesn't have LoS, and you have gigantic AoE in some of your spells, so, that counts for something. Does tree really need to change? It's a useful spell for what it's worth, and can be effectively used. OK, maybe having some spell to take it away can be done, but why do you want another effect in an already effective spell? Shouldn't OTHER spells get changed instead, like poisoned wind and earthquake, since they are bad, and the good spells like tree just be left alone?


Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2008-12-30
posté August 13, 2014, 06:57:23 | #113

Quote (Lynn-Reiginleif @ 12 August 2014 17:09) *
Bushfire won't have either erosion or swapping side effects, for a few reasons:

-All erosion spells are given to damage dealing classes, as means to fight support classes better. Sadidas are pretty much support, and already have stuff against shields (poisons). Plus, generally speaking, all erosion spells are in close combat classes, that already have to go out in the open to get you, risking themselves. Rogues are the only exception, and even then, their erosion has low range.

-All erosion spells have short range. Bushfire has a lot of range, so, not happening. Even if sadidas did gain erosion, it would be on dolly sacrifice, or something.

-As far as I know, lock is one of the intended weaknesses to sadidas, as it is for enutrofs and osamodas. I don't see any of those classes gaining means to escape lock, since one takes away MP, and the other summons a lot of stuff to keep the target away, meaning both are pretty hard to lock already. In fact, they took away the swap stuff from living bag. Since sadidas summon a lot AND take away MP (in AoE, no less), AND have better close combat options, that's really not happening.

one thing to point out, maybe enu/sadi/osas are intended to have lock as their weakness but look at this way, Both enu/osa''s have way of UNlocking themselves.

Osa only has the boar , yes its mostly useless but in the right situations with the use of the gobball , i have seen osas running away from characters like sacriers.

As for enus, they cant be lock..if they play smart.

the spell named Fortune, adds 40 dodge on the first turn. THats equaivalent to having 400agi.

And its not just Fortune that helps them..theres the Pull out/Bribe combo.
use Fortune then use pull out, then dodgeroll / and use the 1ap MP buff to get a distance.
On the following turn use bribe, and in the next turn, you can run away.

by the time the other character has a chance to do anything, the enu is long gone.

So what am trying to say is that at least give us something to help with lock.
I for one is tired of exo maging almost every part of my set because i cant find a proper setup in which i have a good amount of range/summons/dodge, 11/6 or 12/6 and still have enough damage.


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté August 13, 2014, 15:22:50 | #114
Any character with good enough lock will have enough dodge to just get past the boar and lock the osa again. That assuming the boar doesn't push the target against the osa in the first place, since he prioritizes damage. And the boar can be used against the osa, pushing the target towards the osa.

40 dodge is only useful against things that don't focus in locking (for instance, a close combat character that doesn't have high agility). It won't save you from, say, a agility sram's double.

Pull out and bribe don't work as well as having a gazillion dolls around (due to the cost and negative side effects), and it's a single target thing. May I remind you, you have AoE MP steal, as well as the ultrapowerful, and your blocks/trees work against more than one character. You're better equipped for crowd control than enutrofs, and ankama balances group PvP, so that counts more. Plus, enus have quite a few spells that require minimum range, while sadidas don't.

Also, you have release, and you can make the lives of those wanting to lock you miserable, since you can run A LOT with inflatable buffs, block them with tree and the block, take away their MP and so on. And even if you get locked (and the target will probably be wore out at this point), your strongest spells will be available and you still have release.

I'm pretty sure everyone has to exomage most of their sets to be strong enough, these days. And if you can't find a good summoning set, you should complain about the sets. There's a billion sets after lvl 195, and none of them for summoners? That's stupid, and should be fixed. But that's a set thing, not a class thing. This is all just my opinion, of course, but I don't think tree should be changed.


Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2008-05-03
posté August 13, 2014, 19:20:43 | #115
My sadida has 6 summons, no exomaging. And still high strength (1240). I don't think it's that much of a problem .

PS: I won't ever exomage, I don't agree with it.


98
Xiv (Rosal)
Former Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2008-03-23
posté August 15, 2014, 04:20:01 | #116
Bush fire killing trees would be nice. If it was exclusively trees, I don't think the god Osamodas would mind someone muscling in on his Whip territory. Adds a lot of new tactical uses too, such as blocking off a section of the map for LoS, then burning it down and rushing through offensively

Sadidas seem to use every spell in their arsenal except poisons at the moment, even cha/int hybrids rarely seem to use their paralyzing poison. I do not think this means there is anything wrong with these spells though, as they can do a great deal of damage at a time (along with the crippling -intel). I think most Sadidas simply fear taking their own damage with Earthquak/Poison, and are hesitant to take their own Intel for 7 turns.


199
Jane-Doe (Dark Vlad)
Espadas
Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2010-10-02
posté August 17, 2014, 14:13:58 | #117
I like the idea of burning down trees, maybe even working on tree of life? (meaning you cant heal of it with bush fire but you can remove a unfortunate placed ToL.) I don't think it should have an aoe burn effect though. (unless that replaces one of the poisons).
I also think it would be nice if Soothing bramble didn't reap mp of allies. Sure, the heal is high when you have alot of int but int pretty much requires nice mp reap to work as a build and most allies lose all their mp when they get healed. The 4 turn cd should be enough of an downside already in my opinion.


Subscriber Great Coralator Polisher
* * * Member Since 2007-12-08
posté August 18, 2014, 04:26:01 | #118

Quote (mythici @ 15 August 2014 04:20) *
Sadidas seem to use every spell in their arsenal except poisons at the moment, even cha/int hybrids rarely seem to use their paralyzing poison. I do not think this means there is anything wrong with these spells though, as they can do a great deal of damage at a time (along with the crippling -intel). I think most Sadidas simply fear taking their own damage with Earthquak/Poison, and are hesitant to take their own Intel for 7 turns.


I think the main reason most sadidas don't use Earthquake and Poison Wind is that these spells are too rarely useful to justify investing spell points in them. Now that Dolly Acceleration can no longer stack, they have become even less useful, because it's harder for sadidas to have enough MP to get to a position to use these spells without hitting allies. Paralyzing Poison is still decent for int sadidas though, and end-game equipment with high power/int has made it more powerful.

Feel free to correct me though. I haven't played sadida for a while.



Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2008-05-03
posté August 18, 2014, 05:34:39 | #119
I rarely ever use Poison Wind as a strength sadida simply because it's too detrimental to the team. Especially with the -intelligence, which is really bad for enis on the team (and the intel osa my boyfriend plays).

I think this spell is better suited for solo sadidas and not team sadidas. But classes, in my opinion, shouldn't have spells that are meant for solo purposes only. I think that spell and Earthquake need to be reworked a bit.


Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2008-12-30
posté August 18, 2014, 13:31:09 | #120
pvm, not as much. But for pvp i tend to use eq/pw Alot, in 1vs1 aggros,kolo.

even in goult, we won a fight because of the -int effect of poison wind.

When the other team used a Boombot to drag me closer to them, i used Poison wind/earthquake but because i was closer to them, my teamates didnt get effected. not only this caused 100-150 damage per turn to all 4 characters, but weakened their healings. (was an rogue/osa/enu/iop team) rogue/osa/enu all had healing weps.

If their healing wasnt weakened , we would of lost that goult match or drawed.

(If you dont believe you can watch the fight on yt probs)

So i say theses spells are more situational spells then anything else. But i do want them to be updated a bit, they have been the same since the beginning, with only a few adjustments.


This post has been edited by [Nerodos] - June 25, 2017, 03:54:31.
Reason for edit : Quoting the last post in a thread is against the rules
Subscriber Gobball Breeder
* Member Since 2009-12-06
posté September 16, 2014, 20:09:16 | #121
As a long time sadida, I feel like sadidas are a rather too balanced class. They are OK at most things, but don't excel at anything. Is a jack of all trades. Probably pvp and kolo are best niches for sadidas right now. But they are redundant in pvm in most cases (except some duo achieves). If you ask anyone to fill up a group with an extra char, no one will ever mention sadida. Particularly in F3 and dimension dungs. They are not great dmg dealers like iops, map control like panda/sram (even fogg), protection like masq/feca, and even mp snuggle (enu, cra). There is someone else that is better at any particular task.
Don't get me wrong, I love sadidas. But in the current metagame they are quickly becoming obsolete. Para poison is great in pvp and to solo/duo kralove, but little application in pvm, same as for most poisons.

And following up on some comments from before....why the heck a sac can coop a tree??? is a freaking tree with roots!!! It should be unmovable (been complaining about this for years). Fogg towers cannot be cooped/swapped for instance.

Anyway, I have dropped my sadi for now (participated in 3 goultards with it) and switched to fogg until, maybe one day, I can come back to sadi. And no, pure cha sadi is just plain boring to play. Is a flat build IMHO.


Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2008-12-30
posté September 16, 2014, 20:44:11 | #122
Yeah i know, Thats why i was thinking. Why dont they make Sadidas the Main debuffer class?

I mean give most debuff status that are in the game and make it there speciality. E.g.. Earthquake causes a 2-5 fire damage in Aoe (same as now but lower damage) but add 25% erosion, -150% power debuff, 1-2ap snuggle for 3 turns. The Aoe should have a minimal range, e.g range 1-5 from the sadida is safe..and 6-10 is not.

And Give Poisoned wind the similar effect.. but this time 1-5range from the sadida is effected and 6-10 is not. The effects could be -1-2mp cuddle, 2-5 neutral damage, -100 heals, -30 Ap and Mp reisi, for 3 turns.


Both Spells have a Cooldown of 4 turns. And Only the damage effect can be Unbewitched, Ap/mp cuddles is dodgeable.

This may seem a bit op so to balance it out a bit, You can't use both spells at the same time.


This post has been edited by [Nerodos] - June 25, 2017, 03:54:31.
Reason for edit : Quoting the last post in a thread is against the rules
199
Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-06-22
posté September 16, 2014, 20:52:44 | #123
Im in the same boat as Zapper - I too found it didnt excel at anything, and it was becoming less and less useful in pvm as time goes on. And i also have moaned about swappable tree's also, if its not in the summons list it shouldn't be able to be swapped.

For me to return to sadida, the changes i would like to see are.

- Block to cast a spell granting the target - dodge, stackable twice and lasting 3 turns, castable once per turn.

- Sacrifical doll to get more powerful the longer its on the field, (Like punitive arrow)

- Insolent bramble to return to its former glory, removing all effects. (Not states or triggers though still)

- Mad dolls AI fixed, last time i played mad doll seemed to be cowardly, and i ended up with mad dolls in map corners, wasting a summon.
IF the mad doll isnt in range of an enemy to AP cuddle, i would like it to grant an ally with +5mp reduction, priority to caster (3 stacks, once per turn, 4 turn duration)

- Tree to cast a damage glyph around it (similar damage to the weaker glyph the feca currently has) but now to count as a summon, damage would be agility and based on castors stats.

- Knowledge of dolls increased as so. 2 2 3 3 4 5 summons lvls 1-6 and keeping the current duration/cooldowns

- Poison Wind and EQ to not affect allys and the -intel duration of PW reduced to 4 turns

- Paralyzing poison to be the same as vertigo, but damaged halfed and -1more, this would work in line with 12ap is double 6mp and also -1more because it wont require the carried state to be cast.

- Damages all slightly increased


I think like this we would be more versitile and more open to hybridise, whilst not making it essential. and giving summons a stronger role, while i know they are useful already, I find them more of just annoyances to enemys, rather than something that has to be killed straight away.


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté September 16, 2014, 23:37:16 | #124
@Radioactive-Poison: Those spells are WAAAAAAY too overpowered. For starters, earthquake: no spell that gives erosion has more than 4 range, or AoE bigger than 4 cells; all erosion spells are used by low range damage dealers, that NEED it to have a chance against long ranged healers/tankers (like eni and feca, that can hit from afar and wouldn't be afraid of damage when the enemy got close without erosion); it has too many effects. Poisoned wind would also have too many effects. And with both spells, there would be a huge AoE and low cost, meaning both are way more effective. This is way too overpowered.

@ItsaMEee: insolent bramble: most buffs are changing to having 3 turns of effect, or less. So, "restoring it to it's formal glory" would be redundant.

Tree dealing air damage...why? Plus, making it count as a summon would hinder it's usefulness by a lot, and the damage wouldn't compensate that.

Knowledge of dolls: I don't think that is needed. I see sadis using lots and lost of dolls as is. This would only be for tree, and I don't think tree should change.

Those changes would not help sadidas with hybridizing. What would help is making each element more distinct. There is not much reason to be hybrid when your spells all do pretty much the same. Making the damaging spells more unique would help with that.


199
Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-06-22
posté September 17, 2014, 00:24:35 | #125
How would it not help hybridisation?

PW - Neutral dmg
EQ - Fire damage

Both would be great to start a fight with when your start spot are in close combat ranges

Tear is particularly useful when there isnt any Los and then Dolly sacrifice for heals, close range high damage, thats 3 elements.

Agi is useful for dodge/lock anyway and if tree can do constant low damage in small AoE, then thats a 4th element, sure, you cant base anything around it, but if an enemy corners themself you can put a well placed tree and hit through it with tear.

I know i would be a hybrid AoE focused sadi in pvm and doll spam AoE runaway in pvp. and it would be interesting to use.

And for the insolent, it wouldn't be obsolete as their is still a PvM where alot of enemys have high duration buffs


Also Radioactives suggestion isnt as crazy as you think - the way he described it, you wouldnt be able to use both spells at the same time and affect the same people. I assume the AP/MP snugglies are wis based so dodgeable and the damage would be lower than currently, my only change to his suggestion would be remove the -100 heals and lower the 25% erosion to 10%, and then add 10% to the other poison. - 20% erosion over 2 turns and have to place them in 2 oposite ranged glyphs, and when you can 1 poison you have to wit till next turn to cast next one.


Subscriber Great Coralator Polisher
* * * Member Since 2007-12-08
posté September 17, 2014, 03:18:47 | #126
Before we get into a longer discussion, let's keep in mind that developers make changes to classes to improve their balance, including balance between the existing elemental builds within the class. Enabling hybridization is preferable, but encouraging hybridization is not always a goal. Also, it would be more productive if we talk about issues in the current spells, as opposed to giving suggestions on how to change the spells. It's a little easier to see how many people agree on the existence of a particular issue, than to get people to agree with each other's suggestions.


This post has been edited by vagabaka - June 25, 2017, 03:54:32.
199
Former Subscriber Tofu Stroker
* Member Since 2011-06-22
posté September 18, 2014, 16:55:11 | #127
As requested.

Issues with current spells

- Mad dolls AI being seemingly cowardly (which i mentioned before)

- The critical damage and regular damage of Dolly Sacrifice are too far apart, i vaguely recall them once trying to shorten the gap between crit and non crit? (might be wrong, its a really vague memory and i could well be mixing it up with the 199-200 gap they tried to lessen)

- I would like to see Tree of Life replaced, as its kind of redundant considering you can heal more effectively from Tree/Block etc using dolly sacrifice.

- Srams can do 2 lethals, us just 1 agressive.

- Eni's can do 3 forbidden, us just 2 bramble (damage arent far apart and Eni's are the healing class)

- PW/EQ need adjusting (wont go into detail, they are covered alot throughout this thread)
- Sadi which was renowned for its unbewitching is no longer able to completely remove effects, more so in pvm where enemys self buff durations can be longer

- An AOE bramble (Manifold) deals more damage than a single target Bramble, perhaps due to being linear and non modifiable i guess.

Spells which i find perfect are

- Soothing Bramble
- Ultra Powerful
- Dopple
- Sylvan power
- Tear
- Bush Fire
- Wild Grass
- Inflatable
- Tree (Perfect of doing what it was designed to but needs to be Rooted state at least)

Answers to the questions on the first page

What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

Pvm - MP snuggle, Unbewitchment, Damage
Pvp - Effective dolls, MP snuggle, Unbewitchment, Damage

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

Only MP snuggle for pvmDolls, MP snuggle and unbewitchment for pvp

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

No, Intel build is seriously lacking

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

Dolls - Yes (Just mad dolls AI)
Poisons - No (Damage too weak, affects allies in the AoE)

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

Poisons updated to not affect allies


199
Gumbo (Solar)
Ascension
Subscriber Pandora Opener
* * * * Member Since 2011-05-24
posté September 18, 2014, 21:58:42 | #128
I disagree with the change of Tree of Life. Yes i can heal better with a block, but my team mates can not. It provides a good source of heals for them which has helped a lot in pvp and pvm for me


Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2008-05-03
posté September 19, 2014, 04:22:36 | #129
Lv 6 tree of life = +1200 HP. Level 6 block + dolly sac = +300 HP.


200
Stryke (Rushu)
Fatality
Subscriber Bworkette Lover
* * * Member Since 2005-12-21
posté December 28, 2014, 12:11:18 | #130
I had an idea for the Sacrificial Doll.

How about, lower it's current damage,give it a little more health/resists and increase it's damage when it explodes by 10-20% for each turn it remains alive, while keeping it's current AI so attempting to keep it alive isn't that easy.

Paralyzing Poison needs a buff to make up for how underpowered it is compared to Sram's Trap of Silence and Pandawa's Vertigo (I know it's based on mp but it still has a higher mp -> Damage ratio than lvl 6 Para Poison).
Earthquake could be a single target poison/small targeted AoE poison that deals damage to allies and enemies surrounding the poisoned enemy. In small amounts of course.

Poison Wind needs a change, the damage it does is negligible and the -int is more of a hindrance than useful.

Block is also underwhelming, personally I'd be more inclined to use it to leech health off of it. (If I was chance.)

Also, as suggested earlier, a way to demolish annoying trees that are in the way without needing a friendly Osa to play with.


Subscriber Pikoko Pilot
* * Member Since 2010-11-28
posté August 11, 2015, 10:29:33 | #131
Sadida spamm dolls are waaay too much, spamming maddol,block,inflate every turn. I dont know why trees dont have a cooldown... seriously lately even in ghoultamour there is a overload of sadida because hes the most unbalanced opie class ever and that already says "sadidas are the best".

make spell cast tree to have COOLDOWN, or a limited how much trees place AKA dolls.

Hmm i like osa, ow wait sadida is much better *clicks sadida*

Ok ok i like to support my teammates with some shield, ooh wait i choose fec.. wait a min masqraiders are better in shielding. Haha what silly of me *clicks masqraider*. But we are talking about sadidas ofc

i hope sadida gets a revamp too ^^


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté August 11, 2015, 17:18:59 | #132
There is a reason for trees to not have a cooldown. If they do, sadida will be unplayable in the current state, because it depends a LOT on it. What I would agree with is a reduction of the tree and doll's health, because it is pretty ridiculous (except on the block), but sadidas SHOULD spam dolls. It has always been their gameplay. The only issue is that it takes too much effort to kill the dolls and not as much to make them if the sadida doesn't use tear.


Subscriber Klime Buttonholer
* * * * * * Member Since 2005-08-20
posté August 11, 2015, 18:11:28 | #133
Also let me note that the trees don't have a cooldown, but the dolls themselves do. It is literally impossible for a Sadida to be "spamming maddol,block,inflate every turn", because Madoll and the Block have three-turn cooldowns, and Inflatable has a four-turn cooldown.

And while there's no limit to the number of trees that can be on the field, Dolls also do already have a limit on the number you can have on the field at once - the same Summon stat that limits how many summons any character can have on the field at once.

On top of that, the Tree spell has a one-cast-per-turn limit, but that admittedly becomes less meaningful as a fight goes on and dolls turn back into trees. There's that one-turn-delay before a tree becomes usable to summon a doll (which can be obviated with Tear, but that's 3 AP that's not being used to attack you).

So, yeah, there are limitations already.

Sadidas are not going to get a revamp. This is the revamp. Before the Revamp a Sadida could summon as many dolls a turn as he had AP for, without having to worry about a one-Tree-per-turn limitation or a one-turn delay before a Tree could be used to summon a doll.

(Also, that comment about Fecas and Masqueraiders is not only off-topic, it's... pretty much wrong. From the arguments I saw on this forum when Masquerade was changed some time ago, most Masqs don't consider their shields to be useful at all, let alone better than Fecas)


Subscriber Pikoko Pilot
* * Member Since 2010-11-28
posté September 03, 2015, 15:18:05 | #134
three turns is enough to call it a spamming summon spell , for real sadida Are now the best summon class. infected state is really redicilous, and from what i have heard in the france forum is that they will get a nerf and alot of flame from other players.


This post has been edited by [Nerodos] - June 25, 2017, 03:54:32.
Reason for edit : Quoting the last post in a thread is against the rules
82
Elio (Rushu)
Subscriber Scaraleaf Planter
* Member Since 2006-05-29
posté January 02, 2016, 22:48:23 | #135
Sadida is legal cheating. Even a chimp can win with a sadida. Ridicilous op.
To fix it add 5% ero for every tree on the map. ( Max 10 trees ).


F2P Member Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2016-05-31
posté August 31, 2016, 20:06:13 | #136
Yeah sadidas are grossly overpowered. First of all new trees: Less range ( like 3 would be more legit... )
So it wont grow big after a turn
A cooldown of 2 turns or so
Less hp and resistance
Some spells: Dolls ALL OF THEM.... not infinite range and make them have a los -.- what were you thinking ankama..
Earthquake AoE to 2 and only linear
Remove the tree combo thing, dolls have infinite range with that, and you can legit heal full with a few trees around you
Infla gives only 2mp and heals way less
Groute like a 4 turn cd and less heals too
Also make a max number of trees like 6 or something, and so the trees erode the sadi ( like sacri's punishments )
all dolls would be better off with only 3 mp and less range, and Super Powerful with a 1 AOE with its spell.
And madoll doesnt add an infinite infection... once again wtf ankama?
Anyone can play a sadi even tho its marked as a " hard to play " class -,-
Think of the PVP side of your game ankama, stop making a class that beats literally everyone.. so annoying...
also bonus for ruining dofus for me with the new dofus layout ( yes irrelevant no delete pls I took 4 ever writing this )


Subscriber Pikoko Pilot
* * Member Since 2010-11-28
posté March 01, 2017, 17:55:19 | #137
ok let me make a clear topic about this, because people are still mad about this unbalanced class like me.


can a well intelligent sadida player explain why you think your class isnt abusive or overpowered in anyway.


btw a game isnt only focused of high lvl 199/200

yes i know sadida is a build up class, gets stronger the longer the game goes. but it shouldn''t become immortal after a few turns


no excuses like ''rushing classes counter us'' because other classes also have that problem..... or ''íf dolls gets nerfed we are useless''


This post has been edited by dragonfablie - June 25, 2017, 03:54:32.
199
Viward (Spiritia)
Black Power
Former Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2011-01-09
posté March 03, 2017, 14:17:29 | #138
Could you point out on topics each aspect you think is abusive and overpowered?

Because, as a sadida, I find myself even with the other classes when we consider Dungeons and Koliseum.


Subscriber Greater Bherb Pruner
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté March 03, 2017, 15:03:12 | #139
@Dragonfalible: are we talking 1x1 or 3x3 here? Sounds like you're talking 1x1. Which isn't meant to be balanced anyway, so not a discussion worth having. If we're talking 3x3...yeah, rushing is more or less what you're supposed to do. Same as osas, really. Snowball classes have a weak early game as a trade off for a strong late game. And by then, AoE tends to destroy a turtling sadida.


Former Subscriber Scaraleaf Planter
* Member Since 2007-08-05
posté March 31, 2017, 17:55:54 | #140
If anything i would like to see the fire element a bit more usefull. At the moment i dont find it really good and im playing a cha/int sadi. It seems to me that ignoring int and just go full cha would be stronger even tho there is this cha/int spell bushfire. If tear wouldnt be non los str would simply outclass any other build i think.


p.s. i dont think sadi is too strong. Of course if you ignore the puppets than u might get trouble but if you just think a little stategy and kill the puppets, the sadi becomes kind of weak compared to other classes. Its like fighting an osa.


This post has been edited by Sterntaler - June 25, 2017, 03:54:32.
Subscriber Kitsou Beater
* * Member Since 2009-03-26
posté March 31, 2017, 21:42:03 | #141
They're not strong damage wise but they do however have tons of utility up their sleeve ... finally a class that doesn't rely solely on bruteforce!