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Osamodas whipped into shape, Summoning a more balanced class.
200
Datsu (Rosal)
Blitzkrieg
Subscriber Treechnid Hugger
* Member Since 2007-02-12
posté January 22, 2016, 01:31:47 | #451
They mentioned on the french site that there are going to start the revamps of the osa/eni/sac on version update 2.34. They didn't specified which they are planning on doing first first. Hopefully they do Osa's Revamp first.


This post has been edited by DatsuLee - April 28, 2017, 12:18:45.
Former Subscriber Blop Gulper
* Member Since 2010-09-17
posté January 26, 2016, 00:15:19 | #452

Quote (Lynn-Reiginleif @ 20 December 2015 22:05) *
Click here

Look at the osamodas near the class revamp stuff. To me, that shows that they already had something in mind when they did this image...over half an year ago.

that leek image, they will make an osa a pokemon master


200
Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2007-03-25
posté January 26, 2016, 02:56:19 | #453
That would be cool for sure,suit us indeed
The idea of having just a few summons,one for every element would be sweet too I guess. Less summons, but truly powerful ones


200
Subscriber Kitsou Beater
* * Member Since 2008-06-14
posté February 06, 2016, 07:23:09 | #454
I think I recall reading that they want to try to keep the classes in the same niche they fill but keep them from becoming overly-complicated to play.
Anyone with a bag of ideas they have being worked on might also want to keep this in mind.


The best idea I have to bring to the plate is a spell that could be called a 'spiritual leash', giving one of the Osamoda's summon access to the summoner's stats.
Everyone I have talked to have felt iffy about this idea, but if we include Plastini's idea as well- "having just a few summons, about one per element" this could be made possible in a more balanced fashion.


Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2008-04-28
posté May 11, 2016, 06:00:49 | #455
After seeing the changes to the Eni Word of Thorn. Would it make sense to have Toad/Natural Defense follow a similar model?

'Natural Toady Defense' N AP
Toad effect of 1000 shield on a summon (4turns), 500 on another character(2 turns), 250 on oneself(one turn)? (Yes.. I ignored scaling/lvl)
Natural Defense: 100% on a summon (5 Turns), 33% on another char (2 turns), 16% on oneself (one turn)

The premise being that the summons against higher lvl content.. need to live more than 1.5 turns to be truly useful..


Maybe to make it more interesting on the summons, have it take effect over a number of turns..


'Natural Toady Defense' V.2 N AP
Effect on summons +60% Vit and +400 shield/turn for 3 turns, Each turns effect lasting 3 turns..


Subscriber Pandora Opener
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté May 11, 2016, 07:11:23 | #456
1000 shield will not keep a summon alive for more than a turn in endgame. Heck, 1k shield+double hp on crackler wouldn't keep it alive in endgame due to poor resistances and bad AI. Plus, for allies, damage reduction is often more useful than shield, the buffs should last 3 turns as they already do, I highly doubt they will ever allow osa to self buff due to the possibility of spamming summons and running around, making osas much more annoying, and finally, osas will probably get heavy changes in the end of the year and we should expect a complete change in play style, thus we shouldn't expect to see buffs in the same model they are now.


175
Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2010-01-14
posté June 05, 2016, 05:09:52 | #457
Hello,
Here is what I think the "revamp" for osa's should be:
1) I do think that Osa's spells should deal more damage and PoC shouldn't damage allies/summons
2) Osa's are buff bots, but they can not buff themselves, why not give them that ability? Osa's buff spells cost 2 ap, so you are able to buff yourself or others and still attack, also if Osa's are able to buff themselves that would take care of the spells dealing more damage section
3) heals, I feel as if yes Osa's are a support class so I feel like animal healing ( when cast on you) should buff your heals or you can cast it on yourself and heal yourself and when cast on allies/summon should heal them, this then means that Osa's can heal for greater amounts if buffed
4) Summon- this is going to be a tough one: I have heard different opinions on this, one thing that I have heard is that Osa's should be able to control their summons, kinda like how Sadi's do with Sylvan Power... Personally I think that if Osa's are able to do this, that would be broken and very abused....
what I think is maybe the damage that a summon deals is increased based on your stats in that element....

These are just some of my opinions, yes Osa's are buff bots, I feel like that is also a good thing while in groups but being able to buff yourself will be an improvement as well.


200
Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2011-03-12
posté June 05, 2016, 12:46:00 | #458
With those changes osa would be strong as ..... and i am sure that they will balance it somehow


Subscriber Pandora Opener
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté June 05, 2016, 16:09:56 | #459

Quote (86400 @ 05 June 2016 05:09) *
1) I do think that Osa's spells should deal more damage and PoC shouldn't damage allies/summons
2) Osa's are buff bots, but they can not buff themselves, why not give them that ability? Osa's buff spells cost 2 ap, so you are able to buff yourself or others and still attack, also if Osa's are able to buff themselves that would take care of the spells dealing more damage section
3) heals, I feel as if yes Osa's are a support class so I feel like animal healing ( when cast on you) should buff your heals or you can cast it on yourself and heal yourself and when cast on allies/summon should heal them, this then means that Osa's can heal for greater amounts if buffed
4) Summon- this is going to be a tough one: I have heard different opinions on this, one thing that I have heard is that Osa's should be able to control their summons, kinda like how Sadi's do with Sylvan Power... Personally I think that if Osa's are able to do this, that would be broken and very abused....
what I think is maybe the damage that a summon deals is increased based on your stats in that element....

These are just some of my opinions, yes Osa's are buff bots, I feel like that is also a good thing while in groups but being able to buff yourself will be an improvement as well.
1: Sure. But it will probably lose support for that.
2: No. This would only encourage summon spam, and osas running and hiding, healing itself while the summons (which will be improved) chip down everyone. Combined with the aforementioned damage boost to osas, it would be simply too powerful. Plus, at least I want to move *away* from buff spam.
3: Same as buffs. As long as osas can summon spam, they can't self heal, or will be broken. The only way around it is having a lifesteal spell with low range. Remember that osas don't really need stats to be effective, they can focus much more on resistances, and with the summons stalling and chipping opponents away, even without self healing, osas are pretty hard to kill already.
4: having the summons based on your own stats would force you to go omni, which is not good. They should be based on your level.

There are better ways to have osas be a support class, and be actually interesting to play as. For instance, giving the spells a cooldown, but having them have a large cross AoE when you target a summon. Osas need to more interesting, and there are ways to do that without hurting their support abilities.


175
Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2010-01-14
posté June 12, 2016, 01:30:24 | #460

Quote (Lynn-Reiginleif @ 05 June 2016 16:09) *

There are better ways to have osas be a support class, and be actually interesting to play as. For instance, giving the spells a cooldown, but having them have a large cross AoE when you target a summon. Osas need to more interesting, and there are ways to do that without hurting their support abilities.
Some of these suggestions are almost going to the old way of Osa from what I can remember, Osa's buff spells use to have a cooldown, and some of them use to have an AoE ( ex. High Energy Shot) granted the AoE wasn't large as it was just a 1x1 AoE. I do agree that yes Osa's do need a change, but Osa's main power from what it use to be was Summons, not Support. If you are worried about Osa's just spamming Summons and then running and hiding, then you also need to comment that Cra's need to be changed from their MP reducement and their Tactics of running away. I do agree with you that Osa's need a change, the reason why I suggested buffing themselves is because a lot of other classes can as well. The Eca can buff himself, and also summon a cat that can heal and deal damage
The Cra can buff himself, steal MP and keep a distance without people reaching them and chip them down with their range
The Iop can buff himself
The Sac can buff himself through Punishments and heal himself with attacks
The Eni can buff himself
The Enu can buff himself ( from what I remember, I haven't played Enu in forever) and also summon things to help him and heal himself
So the Osa being able to buff himself I feel wouldn't be to broken, but I do see where you are coming from with healing
Making improvement to the Osa's are needed, but taking away the Tactics of them shouldn't when some characters tactics are the same

I would love to see some more ideas on what people think, I just want to state to people that I am not hear to argue, I am here to have conversations but if you have an idea give me some reasons on why and what it can improve and how you came to that conclusion, I love hearing what people think.


Subscriber Pandora Opener
* * * * Member Since 2010-03-19
posté June 12, 2016, 02:50:03 | #461
Cra can't summon armies.
Iop can't summon armies.
Sac can't summon armies.
Eni can't summon armies.
Enu... can summon armies, but they barely do a thing, and the enu can't just hide behind them and buff them, while they do all the work.

Context is important. The reason why osas can't self buff is that they have summons that they can hide behind. If they had summons (which will undoubtedly get better) plus self buffs and heals, they'd be nearly immortal, winning through stalling tactics, focusing their own sets around survival and letting the summons whittle enemies away. None of the classes you cited can do that. Cras can MP steal, that is true. But they can't summon stuff to slow enemies down, they can't put all their stat points in vitality if they want to function properly, nor focus their sets around resistances. And I've been arguing for years that cras have far too great damage, range and side effects and should be nerfed for that.

Those improvements would encourage a playstyle that is neither fun to use or to go against: full resistance summon spam. With balanced summons, it would be broken. If osas ever become capable of self healing and self buffing, their summons WILL suffer greatly for it, and by that point, why not just make another class?

I know they would give osas their old AoE. That's the point. Osas are buff bots now because they need to cast buffs every turn. If we want to move away from buff bot osa, buffs will need cooldown. But to keep osas effective as a support class, they need to be able to buff multiple people, hence AoE buffs, done slightly differently from what was in the past (summons extending AoE...or hell, summoning IS the buff; have summons buff allies around them when they enter the battlefield, that will bring summons into relevancy).

I am making a conversation. I'm showing you my opinion, not arguing. I'm sorry if you misinterpret me, but I just present my thoughts bluntly and directly. That is my honest opinion, and that's it.


Former Subscriber Arachnophobe
* Member Since 2012-01-17
posté June 18, 2016, 18:53:08 | #462
Well , to compensate the self buffing and "controlling summons" why not make the class more of a shape shifting class? Like instead of summoning a boar, you turn into a boar, and casting it again would turn you back into the osa class. Kind of how masq uses his masks to turn into different states, and pandas turn drunk? Maybe they could have some kind of summoning mechanic, but not the ability to summon an "army" per say. Like "call of the wild" in which what ever form he is in Summons a monster, i.e;

Osa turns into a boar, and uses call of the wild to summon a boar.


This would make it slightly harder to create a summon army, give us the ability to self buff, a unique and (in my opinion) fun play style. Kind of like the blue mage from final fantasy.


Subscriber Grossewer Rat Washer
* * Member Since 2015-05-28
posté June 22, 2016, 22:41:03 | #463
IMO, Osas could use another Earth/Water Damage Spell, like how the Enis got additional Water/Air Damage Spells. So it would be possible and effective to go Pure Build Osa in another Element, except Intelligence for Versatility. The Buff Spells seem perfect and okay to me, but the Summons sometimes have unpredictable A.I making them unreliable. It would be better off to make them 'controllable' like how Rogues can control their Boombots. They're master tamers after all, right? Maybe an mechanic to hijack enemy's summon might be cool too.


200
Sinbad (Rushu)
Fedaykin
Subscriber Ancestral Treechnid Slogger
* * * * Member Since 2011-08-20
posté April 11, 2017, 02:56:32 | #464

Quote (Nerd-Tease @ 11 April 2017 01:56) *

Quote (Private-Prinny @ 09 December 2016 17:50) *
At pretty much every point, actually, especially considering that anyone with half a brain can keep Tofus alive at low levels, and someone with an entire brain did a bunch of endgame dungeons with Agi Osa solo or duo for dimesions.

There's also the fact that Osas are the most represented class in the Top 10, Top 25, and Top 100 of the Kolo Leaderboard


That was pre nerfs, but still holds true if you adjust to top 25, 50, and 100.
Osas are a little overtuned right now. I hope they don't go with any of the nerfs I've seen suggested as it would gut the class, but something needs to be done.

You can't ignore their summons, but if you spend all your AP removing their summons, they still win the damage race by a mile because they don't need to have high base stats to have the summons be unignoreable which lends to building higher resistances. Their summons get a turn before you could possibly remove them, and have enough hp and resistances that most classes would need to spend at least 7AP to kill 1 summon.

Additionally, their weakness is not close combat as many people have suggested, (free heals for days if you try to stay in CC with an osa or any of their allies) Their weakness is to Area of effect(AoE). The problem lies with low access to ranged AoE abilities among classes. Cra before the AoE damage nerfs actually would have been (and was if you watched higher level kolo) a good answer to osas, with the nerfs however, there no longer is the clear counter that there used to be. If you get matchmade in a 3v3 as a team without an osa vs a team with one, your chances of winning diminish greatly.

Did I mention the free Unbewitch? At least with the foggernaut it takes them 3 turns to get the unbewitches going.

Even further complicating things is that the osa can control all of their summons in a branch + any of their summons (at extra cost here) Which means any smart osa can place their summons to where they are not susceptible to AoE damage.
I wrote that elsewhere, but it I feel it's relevant here (and there in the context of that thread)